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 Post subject: Home Defense Shotgun
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2003 10:42 pm 
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Location: Decatur, AL
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I'm looking for "the perfect" home defense shotgun. Any idea's?

TheLibertarian
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(7/16/02 6:45:04 pm)
68.59.235.110
| Edit | Del Maverick 88
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I just bought a 18 1/2" mossberg maverick 88 security model for 189$ on july 3rd. It's a pretty damn good gun so far. I have suped it up with a new pistolgrip buttstock, heat shield, shell side saddle, and bunches of other stuff, and the total cost has not gone over 300$ yet. I had a few problems in the beginning, but they were all mainly due to the fact i hadn't fired any guns since i was a young teenager.

Try one out. They are cheap, easy to clean, built tough, and easy to clean.


TheLibertarian
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(7/16/02 6:47:03 pm)
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| Edit | Del >:P
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er.. i mean easy to clean. ONCE. hehehe

BP
Unregistered User
(7/18/02 12:42:51 pm)
66.245.6.195
| Edit | Del Depends on you skill and needs
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"Best" depends on your skill level, physical size, budget, and living circumstances.

If you are reasonably skilled with firearms and of average size, a 12 gauge pump is likely to be the most reliable and cost effective. Best bets are Mossberg 500, Rem 870 with older Win Model 12 or one of the less expensive import clones being good candidates.

If someone may be using it who is less familiar with firearms, you might even consider a side-by-side or over/under for simplicity.

If you're in the country, 00 buck is fine, but if you're in an apartment or condo, consider using smaller shot; at close distances, it's still deadly, but won't penetrate walls. If a likely user is smaller or maybe intimidated by recoil, use light tactical loads.
Although the above poster put a pistol grip on his Mossberg, this can be difficult to shoot. Stay with the basics until you have a bit of time with yours.




TheLibertarian
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Posts: 13
(7/18/02 4:09:32 pm)
152.163.189.130
| Edit | Del
Re: Depends on you skill and needs
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I put a pistolgrip "buttstock" on it from ATI. It had a regular pistol grip on it without buttstock when I bought it new.

And you are exactly right about a regular pistol grip being difficullt to fire strait. Not to mention the nasty carpal tunnel syndrome you'd probably develop if you shot it too much
From my experience i wouldn't recommend using one of those unless you were sure you'd only use the gun in tight spaces at all times.

BANE2001
Registered User
Posts: 4
(7/21/02 1:36:36 am)
64.105.81.207
| Edit | Del Re: Depends on you skill and needs
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I would not recommend that regular pistol grip at all. When I first tried using it my hand was swollen and I was having a hard time getting it to fire. But when I put the stock butt back on it worked fine and I almost got bullseye on targets. I will try a top folding stock to see how that works in a few weeks

znstr
Registered User
Posts: 1
(7/23/02 1:23:56 am)
65.19.10.125
| Edit | Del Re: Depends on you skill and needs
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I'm interested in buying the Mossberg 500 Defender for home security but I am trying to decide between a 12ga and 20 ga. I am short (5' 5") and under 140 lbs. I recently shot (my first time)a 12 ga but could not get it positioned properly in the "crook of the shoulder" *and* sight aim. Also,at the time I was ignorant of gauges and ammo . So my question is: Would it be a painless experience (for a small man)to shoot a 12 ga if I used a light load shell like a 2-3/4 ", 1oz #3 buckshot, 1200fps ? I would get the 18.5 in barrel and I would get a wood stock(with a good recoil pad) shortened to fit me. Or, I may get front and rear pistol grips(Tacstar or Pachmayr) to distribute the recoil force. Or should I settle for a 20 ga ? Thanks....................

OA Tanthalas
Shotgun Expert
Posts: 59
(7/23/02 9:26:19 am)
156.34.154.128
| Edit | Del lol
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must be nice pistol grips are illegal up here

znstr
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Posts: 2
(7/23/02 12:11:37 pm)
65.19.10.190
| Edit | Del Re: lol
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Correction: That model was Mossberg Persuader. /////////////////In which US states are shotgun pistol grips illegal ? /////////////////////// Tacstar and Pachmayr make PGs only for 12 GA//////////////////////////////

BP
Unregistered User
(8/1/02 12:47:26 pm)
66.245.4.210
| Edit | Del Depends on your skill and needs
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20 ga. would be quite adequate for defense. However, it occurred to me after the above post that getting a short barrelled 20 ga. might be a challenge. I have fired my Stevens 620 riot gun recently with low recoil loads and it is truly not imtimidating at all.

As an added comment, I don't think the dual pistol grips would provide any additional recoil relief. To the contrary, they might interfere with your taking a proper firing stance with the shotgun.



dommster
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Posts: 10
(8/9/02 7:27:54 pm)
205.188.200.165
| Edit | Del home DEFENSE
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I use a mossberg 590 military model 12 ga with reduced recoil 00 loads.it has a top folding stock that my wife needs to use. 20" barrel 9 shot. Picked it up on auction for $225.00.I have never had a feed problem with it and I have put about 1000 rounds through it.It also has the bayonet lug on it (some states dont allow them) so if you run out of shells....you get my drift LOL

TheLibertarian
Frequent SW Visitor
Posts: 16
(8/16/02 8:17:32 pm)
205.188.198.181
| Edit | Del 590
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A 590 for $225?!! You lucky dog. I paid $189+tax+check for a damn Maverick!! Arrrg!

Dave W
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Posts: 13
(8/17/02 10:21:33 am)
64.12.104.21
| Edit | Del 870
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I personally prefer the old 870 for a defensive shotgun.
One right now is set-up with:
18" barrel,full stock, 2-shot extension, 4-shot side saddle, sure-fire fore end, oversize safety, and spring kit.
I use 12ga tactical loads and slugs.
The one thing I would add is the weight.
I prefer the gun to have as much as possible. Helps cut down on felt recoil. Just feels right, aint like you have to carry it. Now if you small framed, have the buttstock shortened to fit. There isnt that much dimensional differences in the 12 and 20.

Dont like the recoil of the 12ga pump? Use reduced loads. Birdshot at around 12ft will punch a hole in a chest the size of your fist. Or check out the 12ga auto-loader. Much less recoil. Again, I like the remmie 1187 over most. The Benelli is a great gun, but you CAN shoot them apart where the barrel goes into the alum receiver. Seen it happen, it sucks.

Like I said, I like the 870. You just cant wear them out and there are a ton of options available. Try out as many as you can before you buy anything. While some things look cool, after you put them on the gun, you might realize you dont like it or really need it. Folding stocks are cool, but if you shoot some heavy loads you might find it aint so user friendly. Pistol grips are useful if storage room is at a minimum (boat,plane,coat) but this is a house. Use a full stock. Again, shorten it if you need to.

Again, it comes down to what you want it to do, and how much you want to spend.


Shaun
Unregistered User
(9/16/02 6:18:59 pm)
204.145.129.131
| Edit | Del My Mossberg 500 and my Remington 11-87
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are both damn good shotguns that I would recommend for defense.

If you go for the Mossberg, make sure the model you buy has a rigid grip on the forearm. The model I purchased has the smooth forearm, and my hand has slipped a few times cycling the action.

If you go for the Remington 11-87, keep it clean, and make sure you test fire whatever shells you intend to use for defense. I have tested a number of different shells in mine, and I know which ones will jam it, and which ones will not. This gun kicks less than the Mossberg.

If recoil is a concern for you, you might want to consider a recoil pad, lengthening the forcing cone, adding a muzzle brake, or porting the barrel.

rossi677
Unregistered User
(9/20/02 11:33:29 pm)
152.163.189.68
| Edit | Del Mossberg 590
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I own a Mossberg 590. Its simple and effective. I do encourage shoppers to buy the ghost-ring and rifle-site option. The extra 80 dollar site-system will let you hit a 9 inch disc at 50 yards all day; and with the front rifle-site being a flourescent orange you get quick front-site aquisition even under low-light conditions. I also recommend the parkerized finish for home security which the 590 also is obtainable in; as a home-defense gun you'll get alot more dings and scratches on your barrel continually leaning it upside your computer stand or reptitiously bumping that annoying gun-safe corner in your closet, a factory parkerized finish will aid you in keeping your arm bearable. I also like the 12 "gauge", its about the most common cartridge to be found in the market-place and the 590 will feed any 12er designed for its smooth bore cylinder,..bird..buck..rifled-slugs; all of which have a tactical home-defense purpose and with some practice you'll get good a speed loading the pump with the round that fits the need in any home defense scenerio.Oh, and the 590 has bayonet mounts too.

Buzz Hog
Registered User
Posts: 1
(2/1/03 1:02:22 am)
66.92.235.203
| Edit | Del 14 inch barrel...
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Currenty I'm running with a Mossberg Pursuader 12 gauge with 20 inch barrel for my home defense, but I sure miss my 870Mike with 14 inch barrel... A sure hall clearer that was...

New2ItAll
Unregistered User
(2/23/03 9:02:25 am)
65.58.2.172
| Edit | Del Mossberg 590 vs 88
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Within the next few weeks I'm going to be picking up a shotgun for home security. I've heard so many good things about Mossberg that I know I'll be going with them, only problem is I'm not sure which model. Right now it's between the 590 and the Maverick 88 (Security 8-shot). So here is my question; is the 590 that much better than the 88? Is it worth the money I would spend getting a 590, or are the differences so marginal that I might as well save some money and get an 88. Any info could help. Thnx.

tacguy
Registered User
Posts: 1
(2/23/03 6:59:14 pm)
65.27.189.65
| Edit | Del m500/88
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Mossberg 500 (590) are the same gun according to factory except for the position of the safety and the fore end ( have to get new action bars to use 500/590 add-on fore end accessories on the Mav 88. I got the 88 w/ 18.5 " cylinder bore & ghostring sights which you have to order from mossberg's website. But really the most important weapon in home defense is the one between your ears.

Get some training or at least a video. Practice shooting at the range, and analyzing your home in the dark; walk around it. Are you backlit by a nightlight? While you're out skulking around, do you know where your family members are; do you have a plan? Can you avoid shooting someone, or having your gun taken away and used on you? How can you discourage an intruder in the first place? If you don't know the heirarchy of force, your best bet might be to stay in a safe room and call the police. If you're planning on shooting someone, you'd better have a good lawyer and plenty of money, self defense or not.

I know, the fun part is getting a basic gun and adding cool accesories (I did it, too), but learn the rules first. Did you know for example that a shotgun with a barrel less than 18" is a federal firearms violation, and you WILL get time just for having it unless you are in law enforcement? If you shoot an intruder, you will be arrested ( and perhaps go to trial depending on circumstances you may not be aware of)?

Forget the movies. My wife and I were watching one last night where a "cop" made a series of potentially fatal tactical mistakes. Protect your family, but use more than a gun. Best of luck. tacguy







Guardian
Tactical Shooting Moderator
Posts: 132
(2/24/03 8:53:04 pm)
216.69.223.249
| Edit | Del Good Points
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Tacguy brings up some EXTREMLY good points. First and foremost: "...the most important weapon in home defense is the one between your ears."

There are a few things that I have to add.

Depending on where you live you may be able to buy/make a sub 18" barreled shotgun. Just make sure you go through the CORRECT CHANNELS. You will need to visit your local Sheriff's Dept. and request to fill out a special form (BATF Form II I think). The Sheriff will Finger print you about 6 times. Depending on buying versus building you may be asked for a description of what you are building/buying. You will get the letter of denail or acceptance in 4-6 months.

From what I've gathered, any shotgun with a full stock and a barrel measuring less than 18" is considered a S.B.S.(Short Barreled Shotgun), and any Shotgun with a pistol-grip and a barrel less than 18" is an A.O.W.(Any Other Weapon). The easiest way to see the difference is to have you go rent The Road Warrior. that nasty sxs 12g Mel Gibson totes throughout the movie is an A.O.W.

Buying/Building a S.B.S. has an attatched $200 NFA Tax Stamp fee attached to the purchase.

Buying an A.O.W. has a $5 NFA tax Stamp attached to it. Buiding an A.O.W. will cost you $200, however.

You can own an S.B.S./A.O.W. legally, as long as you don't mind the extra cost.(or you are in law enforcement)

As for the Mav 88's I have one of those 8rd Security models fitted with a pistol grip. They are very close to the 500/590 series.

Guardian
Tactical Shooting Moderator
Posts: 133
(2/24/03 8:54:12 pm)
216.69.223.249
| Edit | Del Good Points
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Tacguy brings up some EXTREMELY good points. First and foremost: "...the most important weapon in home defense is the one between your ears."

There are a few things that I have to add.

Depending on where you live you may be able to buy/make a sub 18" barreled shotgun. Just make sure you go through the CORRECT CHANNELS. You will need to visit your local Sheriff's Dept. and request to fill out a special form (BATF Form II I think). The Sheriff will Finger print you about 6 times. Depending on buying versus building you may be asked for a description of what you are building/buying. You will get the letter of denial or acceptance in 4-6 months.

From what I've gathered, any shotgun with a full stock and a barrel measuring less than 18" is considered a S.B.S.(Short Barreled Shotgun), and any Shotgun with a pistol-grip and a barrel less than 18" is an A.O.W.(Any Other Weapon). The easiest way to see the difference is to have you go rent The Road Warrior. that nasty sxs 12g Mel Gibson totes throughout the movie is an A.O.W.

Buying/Building a S.B.S. has an attached $200 NFA Tax Stamp fee attached to the purchase.

Buying an A.O.W. has a $5 NFA tax Stamp attached to it. Building an A.O.W. will cost you $200, however.

You can own an S.B.S./A.O.W. legally, as long as you don't mind the extra cost.(or you are in law enforcement)

As for the Mav 88's I have one of those 8rd Security models fitted with a pistol grip. They are very close to the 500/590 series.

Sidearmor
Tactical Shotgun Expert
Posts: 41
(2/25/03 7:57:45 pm)
65.121.170.20
| Edit | Del ..
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Guardian's post is right on the money. Hell, I'd say it's worth reading twice!




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 Post subject: re:
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2003 10:42 pm 
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Location: Decatur, AL
$200 application fee
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About the $200 application fee: people I've talked to recently say it's not refundable, and currently BATF is stamping all aps. "denied" and keeping the money. Anybody recently obtained an AOW of "full auto" permit? Tacguy

Guardian
Tactical Shooting Moderator
Posts: 137
(2/26/03 1:09:12 pm)
216.69.223.249
| Edit | Del $200 application fee
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I don't know for certain, but I thought that it was a tax stamp, not an app fee. Obviously, I don't know for certain. I'd like to buy something like this, assuming I can ever afford one:

www.impactguns.com/store/product393.html

It's an A.O.W. and carries a $5 fee for the tax stamp. It would be nice to have a curio like that. Worst case scenario is I'm out $5 dollars. I can stand to donate $5 to find out.

it'd make one H*LL of a clay shootin gun. That is assuming that I hit the clay prior to it getting past 30 ft.

tacguy
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Posts: 7
(2/26/03 2:51:01 pm)
65.27.189.65
| Edit | Del fee
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You're right. You fill out an application and include the fee for the stamp (which they are robbing people of). I must have been having a SENIOR MOMENT or a blonde attack. BTW, looked on the BATF site and in the Gun Control law a shotgun with less than an 18" barrel needs to be "not less than 26 inches overall", but I ain't no 'tourney.

This gets complicated, and we are getting off the "best shotgun" topic.

May you be standing when the gunsmoke settles.

Tacguy

Guardian
Tactical Shooting Moderator
Posts: 140
(2/26/03 4:06:04 pm)
216.69.223.249
| Edit | Del Re: fee
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The 18"/26" rule applies to non Class 3 firearms only. When you hit Class 3, those rules no longer apply.

As for the off topic part, I don't mind if the thread goes a bit off topic. As long as it's shotgun (preferably Home Defense or tactical) related and people are interested in it, then it's all good.

If you'd like I can move this to a new thread dealling with N.F.A. Shotguns......


"If guns cause crime, all of mine are defective"
--Ted Nugent


tacguy
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Posts: 9
(2/26/03 8:54:03 pm)
65.27.189.65
| Edit | Del Batf rules
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Well, I don't mind learning about shotguns and those who want to restrict our constitutional rights. Can you give more insight on the class 3 situation?

may you still be standin' when thw gunsmoke settles.

Tacguy

DeCePtikon
Unregistered User
(4/28/03 6:11:14 pm)
12.147.138.254
| Edit | Del Home Defense Shotguns
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I currently have a 20g mossberg 500c. it was damaged in a hunting accident, shatering the stock and slightly bending the barrel. i was wondering if a folding stock for a 500 models 12g will fit the 20g, i wouldnt expect it to but id like some other opinions

Guardian
Tactical Shooting Moderator
Posts: 217
(4/30/03 1:27:44 am)
65.31.22.129
| Edit | Del Mossberg 500
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I'm not going to swear to it, but I think that the stocks/grips ARE compatible.

If you have a little time, give me about a week or two to check. I know someone with a 500/20ga, and I have an extra pistol grip. I can try it, and tell you if it works or not...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2003 4:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 11:32 am
Posts: 4
When I bought my first shotgun, It was for the purpose of home defense. Spent a lot of time researching everything available at the time and since I was lucky enough to still have the money I saved for a year, went out and got a Benelli M1 Super 90 Tactical with pistol grip/shoulder stock combo and ghost ring sights. This was about 10 or 11 years ago and cost me $900 then.

It holds 8 rounds of 00 buck and I still consider it the perfect home defense shotgun, just very expensive.

Safe shooting.

_________________
Robby


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 Post subject: Re: Home Defense Shotgun
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 4:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Posts: 7
Another thing to think about when you're comparing gun models is the accessories (if any) you plan on adding. One of the items I know I want to add is a pistol grip buttstock, fixed, not folding, because, being in the Army, I'm more familiar and comfortable handinling a long gun that has a pistol grip. I've been debating between the Mossberg 590 and the Remington 870. The 870's has a push-button safety located behind the trigger, easy to reach with a pistol grip buttstock. The 590's safety is on the top rear of the receiver, where it's easy to reach with a conventional buttstock, but it seems to me would be kind of awkward to reach with a pistol grip.

Dave

_________________
"Happiness is a belt fed weapon"


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