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 Post subject: Super-X Model 1 bore diameters
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:28 am 
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Good morning, while wasting time on a cold day yesterday, I measured the inside diameters of the ends of my SX-1 barrels with an accurate caliper and was surprised by what I found. I don't have a bore gauge, and wonder if anyone here has measured some of these barrels. My barrels are bone stock, unmolested:

Skeet = .734"
IC = .732"
Mod = .720"
Full = .697"

All but the full are vent rib barrels. The skeet and I/C are 26", mod is 28", full is 30". None has the rib attached with the screw at the muzzle, if that matters. I'm guessing that the bore diameters are around .740", but am uncertain.

I'd not heard of these barrels being produced as "over bore", and would like to hear from other SX-1 users.




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 Post subject: Re: Super-X Model 1 bore diameters
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:34 pm
Posts: 403
Location: Schertz, Texas USA
GFI, thanks for posting this. I have three barrels with my SX-1 but have never measured them like you have. Now, you've got me curious. I may just have to get hold of a bore gauge to find out,
If I can get one, I'll post my findings.
There are some very knowledgable guys who can help you out here. Steve Fischer is one who knows the SX-1 well. Hopefully, he will see your post. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Super-X Model 1 bore diameters
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:31 pm 
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Posts: 381
Location: TEXAS U.S.A.
My field grade barrels have .733 bore diameters, measured with a Stan Baker bore reader. By field grade, I mean they are not TRAP or Skeet target barrels, or target guns.
Here's a blast from the past. A gent posted the same .733 bores in his barrels. TexasTon refers to target barrels in his posted measurements, plus reference to the prior post of .733.
Master gunsmith and SX-1 expert, Mr. Steve Fischer, I do believe has recorded .733 on the many barrels that have come through his shop. Please correct me if I am wrong, Steve.
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=164451


Last edited by sx1 fan on Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Super-X Model 1 bore diameters
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:40 pm 
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Thanks. I'll be interested to see/hear about the barrel measurements, as given that my IC barrel measures .732" at the tightest constriction (muzzle end), I'd be inclined to believe that it's got at least .008" choke, which would indicate a bore of .740" or so.

This line of reasoning may jibe with the modified choked barrel, presuming that it has about .020" of choke, rendering that it's likely .740" or so also in true bore diameter.

I'm less confident of the skeet choked barrel, and of the full choke barrel, though in the latter case, it seems unlikely that it's anything like .740" in bore diameter (which would mean it has .043" of choke when I would expect nor more than .035" of choke). The skeet choked barrel has a small amount of constriction (by observation and "feel" of the cleaning rod).


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 Post subject: Re: Super-X Model 1 bore diameters
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:52 pm 
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Location: Chicagoland
Checked my Super X-1 Trap with the Skeets bore gauge from Brownells. The bore measured .731, and the choke measured .690. That works out to .041 of constriction. That explains the smoked birds when I hit them correctly!

I'm not sure you would find a .740 bore on a factory Super X-1 barrel, I think that would be Browning Invector plus territory.


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 Post subject: Re: Super-X Model 1 bore diameters
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:37 am 
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Thanks Rodbuster, it sounds pretty far fetched to me as well. I just can't explain the .734" and .732" bore measurements at the choke in the skeet and IC barrels. These are not the old style WSI chokings in which the choke actually bells. There is some constriction toward the end.


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 Post subject: Re: Super-X Model 1 bore diameters
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:58 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:34 pm
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Location: NE Oklahoma
I've not personally measured my Super X barrel, but when I bought the gun from Bob Baumgart he told me it measured .732.


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 Post subject: Re: Super-X Model 1 bore diameters
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:56 pm 
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I have owned a dozen SX 1's over the years and all the barrels measured .732 .733 regardless of the constriction stamped on the bbl. This included early non ribbed, late ribbed, full, full trap, etc.
Barney


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 Post subject: Re: Super-X Model 1 bore diameters
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:09 pm 
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I agree with your measurements as well. My skeet choked barrel is a whole lot closer to cylinder than skeet


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 Post subject: Re: Super-X Model 1 bore diameters
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:06 pm 
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682beretta wrote:
I have owned a dozen SX 1's over the years and all the barrels measured .732 .733 regardless of the constriction stamped on the bbl. This included early non ribbed, late ribbed, full, full trap, etc.
Barney


Thanks Barney, still somewhat puzzled over the IC barrel, as it has a little choke but measures .732". I'll get a bore gauge one of these days and stop this foolishness.


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 Post subject: Re: Super-X Model 1 bore diameters
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:50 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:36 pm
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Location: Northeast Ohio
My gunsmiths (two ) each measured my unaltered 26 inch IC bore at .035 and choke at .095. It's a later version with smooth trigger and no allen screw on the rib.


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 Post subject: Re: Super-X Model 1 bore diameters
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:31 am 
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I'm not with you, as those chokes are incredibly tight, especially on the .095" choke. Nominal standard for IC is .008" to .010", full is .035" to .040".


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 Post subject: Re: Super-X Model 1 bore diameters
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:22 pm 
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I currently own 3 SX-1 barrels and have measured them and about 10 others with a bore gauge. Of those barrels the smallest bore was .732" and the largest was .737". The majority were in the .733" to .735" range and most were competition barrels, not field barrels.
Measuring the inside diameter of the muzzle with calipers really tells you nothing about the choke/constriction or bore size. To determine the true choke the bore and constriction must be measured with a bore gauge and the difference between the two is the actual choke. Sometimes the actual constriction is before the muzzle.
I was once told by a late gentleman that worked at Winchester on the SX-1 project that all the competition barrels were tested for pattern and adjusted if needed before shipping. I have one competition barrel that the actual choke measures .005" tighter than marked.

CT


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 Post subject: Re: Super-X Model 1 bore diameters
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:05 pm 
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On my skeet barrel the constriction is about an inch behind the muzzle, then it opens back up.


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 Post subject: Re: Super-X Model 1 bore diameters
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:52 pm 
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searun wrote:
I currently own 3 SX-1 barrels and have measured them and about 10 others with a bore gauge. Of those barrels the smallest bore was .732" and the largest was .737". The majority were in the .733" to .735" range and most were competition barrels, not field barrels.
Measuring the inside diameter of the muzzle with calipers really tells you nothing about the choke/constriction or bore size. To determine the true choke the bore and constriction must be measured with a bore gauge and the difference between the two is the actual choke. Sometimes the actual constriction is before the muzzle.
I was once told by a late gentleman that worked at Winchester on the SX-1 project that all the competition barrels were tested for pattern and adjusted if needed before shipping. I have one competition barrel that the actual choke measures .005" tighter than marked.

CT


If this was true no wonder the SX-1 could not make a go of it. (I'm not questioning the honesty of the late gentleman) That kind of detail is not possible in a mass produced firearm.


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 Post subject: Super-X Model 1 bore diameters
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:06 pm 
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Actually it is true. Mentioned in books on the history of WINCHESTER. I think that Pauline Muerrel even mentioned it in her recent book. Probably limited to the upper end guns which the SX-1 certainly was, along with the 21 and upper end Model 12s. Probably a contributing reason to the excessive costs to produce a shotgun and the eventual downfall of the company.


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 Post subject: Re: Super-X Model 1 bore diameters
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:49 pm 
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searun wrote:
I currently own 3 SX-1 barrels and have measured them and about 10 others with a bore gauge. Of those barrels the smallest bore was .732" and the largest was .737". The majority were in the .733" to .735" range and most were competition barrels, not field barrels.
Measuring the inside diameter of the muzzle with calipers really tells you nothing about the choke/constriction or bore size. To determine the true choke the bore and constriction must be measured with a bore gauge and the difference between the two is the actual choke. Sometimes the actual constriction is before the muzzle.
I was once told by a late gentleman that worked at Winchester on the SX-1 project that all the competition barrels were tested for pattern and adjusted if needed before shipping. I have one competition barrel that the actual choke measures .005" tighter than marked.

CT


That's precisely why I started this thing - seeking more info from folks who have actually checked the entire barrel, and seeking more of that information about these guns and their barrels.


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 Post subject: Re: Super-X Model 1 bore diameters
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:41 pm 
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Location: TEXAS U.S.A.
Here 'ya go, GF1. The last entry has the stats. Disregard the others which I would question without knowing the instruments used to measure the bores. One guy there is just plain incorrectly equating the SX-1 bore diameter to the standard 12ga., .729 diameter.

http://shooterspagetxforums.yuku.com/to ... LcoINLF-1c


Last edited by sx1 fan on Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Super-X Model 1 bore diameters
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:49 pm 
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Yep. Mr Steve Fisher is pretty much the authority on the SX-1. Both of my skeet barrels are right in there with his measurements and both pattern beautifully.


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 Post subject: Re: Super-X Model 1 bore diameters
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:40 am 
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sx1 fan wrote:
Here 'ya, GF1. The last entry has the stats, disregard the others which I would question without knowing the instruments used to measure the bores. One guy there is just plain incorrectly equating the SX-1 bore diameter to the standard 12ga., .729 diameter.

http://shooterspagetxforums.yuku.com/to ... LcoINLF-1c


Many thanks.




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