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 Post subject: 828 U - A Long Review after about 2000rds!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:53 pm 
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OK Folks! Anyone out there using the 828U yet?
I've been shooting it for about 2 months now +/-.
Have gained a dirth of experience with it, but I also have some questions for other 828U shooters.

1.) If you shoot clays, I'd recommend taking out the clip which auto-arms the safety. That was an annoying feature for me, but good if you have youngsters, are hunter-only or are completely new to firearms. It is easy to remove the bar when you drop the trigger group... Instructions are in the manual.

2.) Recoil: If you shoot heavier loads, be ready for a full frontal assault on your shoulder joint. (JK, Maybe that language is too harsh... :roll: ). Proper shim fit will minimize 828U recoil, but a 12ga shotgun weighing just 6.5 lbs with no gas or piston ops to steal pressure?, Well... let's just say it doesn't resist inertia well. Not the 828U's fault. Blame Sir Isaac Newton... The light weight brings some huge advantages though. For example, 828U points and swings faster and easier than any shotgun I have EVER fired and It patterns very well.

3.) Surprisingly Good Trap Gun!: Though I think 828U was designed as a field gun, with the IC **** choke in the lower barrel and Kent 7/8oz steel loads, I broke my first ever 25 straight (at 16 yds) after only 6 previous rounds with it. (28" barrels). The 828U points and fires so smoothly and quickly, it may embarass your Kohler and custom 34" BT-99 wielding Trap buddies. :P.

4.) Shooting Target Loads: Recoil with 7/8oz steel or 1oz lead #8 shot is tolerable. I might even say mild. I usually shoot 150 rounds a day, non-stop with those loads, and no shoulder issues at all. Something noteworthy about the 828U, if you reload your shotshells. Benelli says in their adverts that the Ejector Bars are armed by expanding hull pressure. These 2 pistons sit along-side the hull, like small rectangular cut outs in the chambers. They move outward a few thousandths of an inch. These pistons each have a small divet which resembles a gas port. A small portion of the hull is unsupported and expands into this divet, causing a mark or slight deformation in the case wall. See my link to picture of spent hulls below... (Edit: These are Not hull perforations, as I had previously stated here, Sorry about that Benelli!!). UPDATE: I do NOT think that this mark will affect reloadability of spent hulls, but I sent an inquiry to Benelli USA. Word from my local range reloading experts is that the affected hulls are not compromised enough to allow shot or powder to escape, so probably this is NOT a safety or factor for reloading. I am told that it is better not to reload straight wall hulls with steel shot more than once or twice anyway, so this hull deformation may end up being a Non-Issue / Red Herring. I apologize for mentioning it in the first place. One reason I did not want to ask Benelli about it was that I thought they would respond with a definitive 'Not OK to use reloads in the 828U'.

Benelli USA did respond to my inquiry and I post their response below.

FWIW, Kohler stamps in their barrels: 'USE Factory New Ammunition ONLY' but I know at least two Kohler owners who shoot reloads in their guns all the time.

5.) The Triggger: It is light and crisp, although, VERY occasionally, I've gotten a heavy trigger pull that I cannot track down. I have not cleaned and lubed the trigger group at all, and have close to 2.000 rds through 828U. So that may be part of the issue. the trigger is tough, but it is a bit thin for a shotgun trigger, IMHO.

6.) Gun Finish: I really like the quality of the metals and the the wood and their finish (a light oil, almost matte). The stocks are not burl, so don't expect that, but each stock I've seen is unique in color and grain pattern. The quality of the wood is fair for the mid $2K price point, I think. The 828U is always pleasant to look at. Balance is near perfect. I think they got that right. The free-floating barrels and the carbon fiber rib are two of my favorite aspects of the 828U. The sight picture is great for trap. I woould not mind a bit more fiber-optic tubing in the front bead, but it is adequate out of the box.

The checkering is field oriented. No slip with or without gloves on. Down side is that the larger checkering may chew up your support hand fingers a bit. I had a bit of this at first.

7.) Fit: The 828U comes with shims set up with neutral drop and one click of Right Hand Cast. In this trim, the 828U did not mount to my NPA as I had hoped. I was seeing far too much rib and I still do. I have set shims for max drop at the comb now, but fit is still not close enough to my NPA, and this is vital for good skeet scores. The LoP is fine, but the recoil pad is also field oriented (arched) at the bottom corner. This is not optimal for skeet. Not sure where to go with fit, as I've maxed out the drop. May try the raised rib and raised comb next. If I could find a way to achieve a mount direct to NPA, I think the 828U would be more than able to compete with the high-end, purpose-buit shotguns, like Kohler, Beretta, or Kreighoff, but at 1/4 their cost and significantly less weight to tire you out. Seriously, I am not just saying that. I have shot those high end shotguns before. Recoil is lighter with the high end guns because of their weight. Also there is a bit of slop in the 828U's light trigger take-up. But when you look at the removable 828U trigger group and then consider that the trigger group in a Kreighoff K-80 costs almost the same as the entire 828U, you really must be amazed by the efforts Benelli put in to develop and build the beautiful 828U.

8.) Chokes: They work well, they pattern well. I decidied to experiment with a set of extended, ported CYL chokes from Carlsons. They are great and reduce felt recoil ever so slightly.

9.) Wondering about what's to come for the 828U: It seems as though 828U was built to be customized, a platform from which to leap to new levels. For instance, CNC machining means Benelli could easily build drop-in barrels for all the sub-gauges. The only difficulty would be spacing between the barrels. For instance, a 30" barrel for Trap or sporting clays might be cool. A 20ga barrel for lighter recoil and competition in that category. New shims with more drop, cast or camber options. A 'Pro-Shop' trigger group? one with tighter tolerances, polished engagements, or diffferent metals perhaps? That could get expensive, I know. A higher rib than the highest one now available for Ethos? Benelli tells me that the replacement recoil pads, combs and ribs for the Ethos fit the 828U.

10.) Cleaning: The locking breech face plate keeps the crud in the barrel. Cleaning the receiver is a snap compared to any other shotgun. Some paper towel and CLP or gun oil is all you need for the receiver. A Q-Tip or two to get in the barrel lug recesses, and that's all I've needed so far. The barrel is easy, except for the choke tubes. Expect some leading and plastic wad residew in the up-range portion of the chokes. This is expected in any shotgun with removable chokes. They make those wisk-like chamber brushes which do the trick on the choke bores.

11.) Would I recommend the 828U?: Absolutely, Positively, YES! I look forward to going turkey hunting with it.

12.) For those of you who already have the 828U, I've started a Facebook Group (Open):
'828 U Benelli' Please drop in and feel free to join it. If I get some 828U users in NorCal to join, I'll try to host some fun events later on.




Last edited by BartoJG on Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:15 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 828 U - A Long Review after about 2000rds!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:12 am 
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Good review, but I'm skeptical of just how "minimal" the felt recoil would be with 1 ounce loads at 1180 fps in this 6.5 pound gun.

So, I used an online Recoil Calculator to crunch some numbers. A 1 ounce load at 1180 fps in a 6.5 pound gun generates 20 ft-lbs of recoil energy.

By comparison that is more than the 19.1 ft-lbs of recoil energy generated by a 3 Dram Eq Load (1 1/8 ounce at 1200 fps) in an 8.5 pound gun. Not many shooters today (including me) want a steady diet of 20 ft-lbs of recoil every time they pull the trigger.

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 Post subject: Re: 828 U - A Long Review after about 2000rds!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:27 am 
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The fact that the gun destroys your hulls is more than enough for me to never consider purchasing this gun, and in fact recommend that it is avoided whenever someone asks me about it.

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 Post subject: Re: 828 U - A Long Review after about 2000rds!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:00 am 
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BartoJG wrote:
This makes the 828U unique among O/U's because it only extracts the hull you have fired.


All O/U's with automatic ejectors eject only fired hulls.

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 Post subject: Re: 828 U - A Long Review after about 2000rds!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:16 pm 
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RandyWakeman wrote:
BartoJG wrote:
This makes the 828U unique among O/U's because it only extracts the hull you have fired.


All O/U's with automatic ejectors eject only fired hulls.


Randy, the op said "extract", not eject...but I believe your premise is 100% correct :D

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 Post subject: Re: 828 U - A Long Review after about 2000rds!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:23 pm 
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BartoJG, thanks for your informed review of the 828U. I may consider the 828U when a 20ga. model becomes a reality.

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 Post subject: Re: 828 U - A Long Review after about 2000rds!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:17 pm 
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Skeet_Man wrote:
The fact that the gun destroys your hulls is more than enough for me to never consider purchasing this gun, and in fact recommend that it is avoided whenever someone asks me about it.


You're not fooling anybody here. Your mind was made up well before you read anything about the hulls. If this is what you need to say to legitimize some sort of complex you're having then so be it. Just don't expect others not to see straight though it.


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 Post subject: Re: 828 U - A Long Review after about 2000rds!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:48 pm 
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The gun already has many points against it for what I would ever use it for, but the fact that it renders the hulls unusable is a pretty major issue, and it would be to every reloader. Perhaps a shooter who puts a couple boxes of shells through it a year hunting and doesn't reload wouldn't care, but there are not many of those lining up to buy a $2500 gun either.

Frankly I'm surprised that a gun with a non-solid chamber (the only one in existence I'm aware of) could actually pass proof without failure.

In fact, when I read about the weird ejection system, I hypothesized hull damage because of it weeks ago (along the lines of the damage caused by piezo pressure guns). I didn't think they'd be rendered unusable though.

Ask yourself, where is the little plastic piece ejected from the hull going (either into the action or into the ejector system)? What happens when an overpressure shell vents that pressure through the hole directly into the sidewall of the action?

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 Post subject: Re: 828 U - A Long Review after about 2000rds!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:17 pm 
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BartoJG wrote:
The firing mechanism is NOT dependant on recoil for reset, so the only difficulty would be spacing between the barrels.


Doesn't the 828 have inertia triggers? And aren't inertia triggers defendant on recoil?


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 Post subject: Re: 828 U - A Long Review after about 2000rds!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:01 pm 
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Ulysses wrote:
Good review, but I'm skeptical of just how "minimal" the felt recoil would be with 1 ounce loads at 1180 fps in this 6.5 pound gun.
...
By comparison that is more than the 19.1 ft-lbs of recoil energy generated by a 3 Dram Eq Load (1 1/8 ounce at 1200 fps) in an 8.5 pound gun. Not many shooters today (including me) want a steady diet of 20 ft-lbs of recoil every time they pull the trigger.


Hey Ulysses, I connot argue with your math there. My former Skeet gun was a Citori with 28" barrels. 828U recoil is heavier, despite the Progressive Comfort recoil reduction system.

I would not reccomend shooting 3" magnums through it without a gel pad in the vest or something.

I have gotten used to recoil with Kent 7/8oz steel or the Fiocchi 1oz #8 loads you get around here, recoil is really a non issue for me at this point.


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 Post subject: Re: 828 U - A Long Review after about 2000rds!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:05 pm 
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mms-3 wrote:
BartoJG wrote:
The firing mechanism is NOT dependant on recoil for reset, so the only difficulty would be spacing between the barrels.


Doesn't the 828 have inertia triggers? And aren't inertia triggers defendant on recoil?


Hi UG,

No, the triggers are reset by moving the action-opening lever only. See the Youtube vids from Benelli.


Last edited by BartoJG on Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 828 U - A Long Review after about 2000rds!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:18 pm 
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BartoJG wrote:
No, the triggers are reset by moving the action-opening lever only. See the Youtube vids from Benelli.


No, the opening lever is what cocks the gun: nothing to do with the triggers which are inertia triggers.

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 Post subject: Re: 828 U - A Long Review after about 2000rds!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:20 pm 
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Skeet_Man wrote:
The fact that the gun destroys your hulls is more than enough for me to never consider purchasing this gun, and in fact recommend that it is avoided whenever someone asks me about it.


Hi Skeet Man,

It doesn't destroy the hulls. Never said that. It opens a very small, "U"-shaped flap near the hull mouth. I can post some pics, if you'd like. I'll admit I'm not crazy about this, but I do not think it necessarily renders the hulls useless for reloading. If Benelli responds to my inquiries on this topic, I will post what I learn here.

Running some #'s for reloading with steel shot and bio degradable wads, I'd only save about $0.04 per shot or about $6/day when at my home range. I like reloading tho, so I may get back into it anyway. Cheers.


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 Post subject: Re: 828 U - A Long Review after about 2000rds!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:30 pm 
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RandyWakeman wrote:
BartoJG wrote:
No, the triggers are reset by moving the action-opening lever only. See the Youtube vids from Benelli.


No, the opening lever is what cocks the gun: nothing to do with the triggers which are inertia triggers.


You are correct, Sorry. I was referring to the resetting of the triggers for the next shots, not the arming of the 2nd barrel (which is inertia-driven), nor the falling of the hammers against the firing pins. With the Citori, I believe it was the opening of the action which reset the triggers not the movement of the locking lever. That is the difference in the 828U I was speaking of.


Last edited by BartoJG on Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 828 U - A Long Review after about 2000rds!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:41 pm 
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Let's start with extractors in a shotgun. Extractors, in a double gun, simply elevate the shells by the rim, making it easier to unload and unload the gun. Economy models (like my old Winchester Model 24, DeHann U2 16 gauge, etc., etc.) are "extractor only." Most O/U shotguns have automatic ejectors, including the perpetually most popular Browning Citori line and the Beretta 680 series.

For clays guns, it is common to disable the ejectors, so you pluck the empties out and deposit them in your hull bag, for reloading purposes . . . so, you'll never chase hulls.

The standard Browning Citori has inertia triggers, as does Beretta 680 series guns. It is the recoil of the gun that resets the trigger for the second shot. The Browning Cynergy, Browning 725 Citori, older Winchester 101's, etc., have mechanical triggers, so even in the event of a dud or squib load, the second barrel goes bang. Inertia-reset triggers and recoil-reset triggers are one and the same.

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 Post subject: Re: 828 U - A Long Review after about 2000rds!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:11 am 
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Here is a close-up of the hulls after firing in the 828 U. I've examined the affected area more closely. Though the area is stressed, I have not found one hull yet where the flap you see is actually cut clear through. Maybe this small flap bulges, but doesn't actually rupture?

I think Benelli will shed some more light on all this.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By3rTGWidjzJZlJGbWRoR2ZMRkU2Z3c5Vm1rVFc4R3lqdjlj/view?usp=sharing


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 Post subject: Re: 828 U - A Long Review after about 2000rds!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 8:32 am 
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Skeet_Man wrote:

Ask yourself


Ask Benelli. They are very responsive to emails and phone calls. This would keep you from resorting to baseless conjecture about design flaws. However, we won't all get to see how smart you are so it's a tough call.


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 Post subject: Re: 828 U - A Long Review after about 2000rds!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:46 pm 
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Ask Benelli. They are very responsive to emails and phone calls. This would keep you from resorting to baseless conjecture about design flaws. However, we won't all get to see how smart you are so it's a tough call.[/quote]

Hi CFDoc and group.

______________________________
From Benelli USA Customer Service:

Good afternoon Mr. B. Hope your enjoying your 828U. This is kind of a tough question because as I’m sure your aware no gun manufacturer is going to make any recommendations regarding reloading due to the fact that any damage to the gun while using reloads would not be covered under warranty. The variables that can occur and the fact that reloads do not go through the same quality control checks, documentation and testing as factory ammo does makes it impossible for any firearm company to suggest anything regarding reloading. That being said in the initial testing six different brands of ammo were used including 3” turkey and waterfowl loads and the pressure port mark did not completely cut through any of them. This is because the piston only moves approximately .1mm and shotguns have a much lower chamber pressure than rifles or (pistols). I would say the only way to get a definitive answer on if the hulls are suitable for reloading after being fired from the 828U would be to send samples to the ammo company that makes the hulls. They would certainly be in a better position to be able to comment on the integrity of the hull because they manufacture them and have the specifications. I hope this helps and thanks very much on your purchase. Don’t hesitate to contact us with any further questions. Thanks again, J.


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 Post subject: Re: 828 U - A Long Review after about 2000rds!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:12 pm 
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BartoJG wrote:
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From Benelli USA Customer Service:

Good afternoon Mr. B. Hope your enjoying your 828U. This is kind of a tough question because as I’m sure your aware no gun manufacturer is going to make any recommendations regarding reloading due to the fact that any damage to the gun while using reloads would not be covered under warranty.


It is a friendly, politically correct response . . . but also full of ridiculous horse manure.

Manufacturers know full well that reloads are highly likely to be fired in their guns. If they were serious about not wanting that, you'd see big red letters on every box and on every owners manual: WARNING: NOT TO BE USED WITH RELOADS. USE OF RELOADED SHELLS VOIDS YOUR WARRANTY

Of course they don't do that, for few would want a shotgun that loudly proclaimed this.

Suggesting that "any damage" would not be covered under warranty is a very long ways from the truth. A defect in materials or workmanship is just that. Nor is using factory ammunition any absolute guarantee against defective ammo . . . factory ammo has damaged several of my firearms over the years.

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 Post subject: Re: 828 U - A Long Review after about 2000rds!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:32 pm 
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good points Randy. I plan to inquire further with Ammo makers. If it were not for the impending elimination of lead shot in CA, I'd just move on, but steel shot reloading requires more caution, as I'm sure you know.




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