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 Post subject: Ponsness Warren 900 help
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:47 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:33 am
Posts: 380
Location: Virginia
I purchased a used Ponsness Warren 900 in 410 and I’m having an issue that I cannot figure out. I’m using both HS and regular AA hulls, once fired and multi-fired if that helps, but I don’t think it does. I’ve down loaded and read the manual and I’m still at a loss…anyway. I’m crushing the top part of the hull at the final station to the point the hull (loaded shell) will not eject…matter of fact I have to cut the smashed portion of the hull to get it out. It didn’t seem to matter which hull was used, I initially thought I needed to run all the same type…no love as it still did it, although not as often, out of the 300 +/- hulls I loaded last night, close to ¼ had to be cut. So any ideas? Thanks for the help.



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 Post subject: Re: Ponsness Warren 900 help
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:08 am 
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It would really help to know what and how much "stuff" you are trying to get into the hulls.
From what you have given us so far I would guess too much "stuff"or an improperly adjusted final crimp station.

I am not a PW900 guy but I do load 410 on a MEC 9000 and what I told you applies to that machine.


Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Ponsness Warren 900 help
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:33 am
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Location: Virginia
"Standard" 410 skeet load...2400 powder, Claybuster CB5050 wad and either Cheddite or Winchester primer.

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 Post subject: Re: Ponsness Warren 900 help
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:20 pm 
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Sorry, but I have no idea how much powder is in your "standard" load. But at least we now know you are using 2400.
When I compared 2400 to W296 using MEC's bushing chart I found that 2400 drops less powder for each bushing I checked then W296. (12a bushing, 2400 = 14.0 grains W296 = 16.3 grains)
Which means its bulkier and takes up more room and you might a fit issue as I mentioned in my first post.
I do know 16 grains of W296 and a true 1/2 oz. of 8.5's will fit very nicely into a Win HS hull, its what I load.


Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Ponsness Warren 900 help
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:45 pm 
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The dreaded mushroom.

I polished the bejesus out of the inside of the knockout station. You have to make sure the outer sleeve on the knock out station is fully seated on the die before the knockout plunger starts trying to push out the shell.

Also. You really want to put a die cleaning station on your machine. You can use either a bronze bore brush or a swab with a drop of clp. Either works just fine. The 800+ machines already have a threaded lug on the underside of the tooling head. You may have to invent one for the 900. Site search sucks here but there have been several posts by dano523 about how to rig one up on older pws.

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 Post subject: Re: Ponsness Warren 900 help
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:29 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:33 am
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Location: Virginia
Yep mushroom...has a die cleaning station. Thanks for the info., I'll take it apart and polish if needed. Really a nice press (first one owned), thought it would save some money over purchasing new shells, although I only shoot maybe 1500 per year. As to the load, I don't think it's the powder, only throwing around 12 grains...guess I should cut one open to look at the "stack"

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 Post subject: Re: Ponsness Warren 900 help
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:43 pm 
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GE-Mini-gun wrote:
As to the load, I don't think it's the powder, only throwing around 12 grains...guess I should cut one open to look at the "stack"



You dont necessarily have to cut one open, just look at it before you pre-crimp it.
Is the stack height at or slightly below the original fold line?


Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Ponsness Warren 900 help
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:11 pm 
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At or below

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 Post subject: Re: Ponsness Warren 900 help
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:25 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 3:07 pm
Posts: 1000
Location: Georgia
Take the knock out out of the machine. A piece of hull between the knock tout cap and stem will contribute to the mushroom.


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 Post subject: Re: Ponsness Warren 900 help
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:59 pm
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Location: Soda Springs, Id.
the other issue can simply be the cases themselves sticking in the dies.
I went through this with gun clubs and a couple of other hulls with steel heads in the tall dies.
I tried lube, mica, and some others.
I finally had [have] to pre-size all the steel head hulls to get the machine to run like it does with the brass case heads.


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 Post subject: Re: Ponsness Warren 900 help
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:33 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:33 am
Posts: 380
Location: Virginia
fiver wrote:
.....I finally had [have] to pre-size all the steel head hulls to get the machine to run like it does with the brass case heads.


Currently all brass heads...and that isn't going to happen. If I have to add another step to the operation I'll sell the press. As mentioned, I shoot maybe 2k per year if that, I'll purchase new and sell the hulls.

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 Post subject: Re: Ponsness Warren 900 help
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:37 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:08 am
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Location: Central NH
Have you tried adjusting the final crimp station?

Does the 900 taper crimp, as well?


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 Post subject: Re: Ponsness Warren 900 help
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:14 pm 
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On mine - which is a 950 elite converted to .410 - after polishing the the knockout station and installing a die cleaner and polishing the insides of the dies with scotchbrite pads I still pause just as the spring compresses and before the knockout ram contacts the hull. Often times you can see the outer housing of the knockout die pop downward and seat on the die. Then you can proceed with pushing through the knockout process. It's just a second or so pause.

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 Post subject: Re: Ponsness Warren 900 help
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:15 pm 
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Could be a list of things going on, but since time is short right now, will cover the basics.

Pull the sizers and make sure they are clean. I will polish the insides of the sizers on a lathe as well as the check the top of sizers ID to make sure they don't have a sharp edge. Hence after polishing as still spinning, will take 400 sand paper to the top ID edge to every so slightly chamfer the edges.
Good shot of the sizer ID top edge lightly chamfered/polished so there is not a sharp edge to catch the hulls as they are being pushed out.
Image

Next is cleaning rod with mop on it, lightly dampened with CLP. This keeps the ID's of the sizer cleaned, and the very light coat of CLP inside the dies makes hull knocks a snap.

410 cleaning mop, and it fits right above the hull insertion station so as you go to put a hull on the hull insertion post, the bush is lightly protruding out the bottom side of the sizer.
Image
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Image

P.s, little trick to get more room between the wad ram and the wad finger (as you can see in my set up in 410), remove the wad guide finger sleeve and install a hopper plate powder seal O ring on the top of it. This holds the wad guide finger sleeve from popping all the way up so it easy to get the wads in the finger guides.
Image



As for crimp, only about a dime deep, and don't over adjust the crimper cup spring nut down too far to over taper crimp the hulls.

So crimper shaft up/down in the tool head sets the depth of crimp, and the nut above the spring under the machine on top of the spring, set the amount of taper crimping (how much the top outside edge of the crimp will be rolled inwards). If you are trying to over taper crimp with too much inward outer edge roll (nut above the spring too far down), it's going to end up with the crimps mushroomed on out the top of the sizer. So start with the nut upwards, and only lower it until you just start to get the inward taper crimp roll to the outside of the crimper edges.
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Four last thing,
On wads, throw them in a pillow case loose with a bread bag tie, and put them in the drying on high heat for 5mins. This will relax the pedals so the flair out to the inside of the hulls on insertion.

On hull insertion, only insert the wad enough to just kiss the power. Hence loosen the jam seeve on the wad ram, thread the wad ram up about 4 winds, run a hull through and insert a wad, and leave the handle down. Now use a pencil erasor side up through the bottom of the cross plate to push the sizer and hull upwards in the cyclinder, then slowly thread the wad ram down so the bottom of the sizer and hull just kiss the top surface of cross plate. Now lock the jam sleeve/wad ram at this depth.
Hence too much pressure on the wad when seating will cause the pedal to be pulled off the side of the hull ID surfaces, and when you go to drop shot in the next station, will get shot between the outside of the pedal/inside of the hull to cause problems when you go to crimp.

As for before you pre-crimp and the wad just kissing the power with shot in it, the top of shot line should be the bottom of the inner fold line in the hull. If the shot line is above the inner bottom of hull fold, going to cause all kinds of problems will too much crimp pressure, the top of hull above the sizer going to mushroom to hell.

As for the hull knock out tool, with the machine empty, handle down on the lever, go under the cross plate with an allen wrench on the knock out tool, remove the knock out cup bottom screw and button, then handle the lever back up. The knock out cup will be on top of the sizer, with spring above it, so remove them and clean the parts. When you go to put the cup parts back on, put a touch of stoes grease on the knock out shaft.

Lastly, make sure that the wad ram is centering on the wad guide assembly. If the wad ram seems to be off to one side, check the wad ram to make sure it not bent, and you may have to loosen the left main rod to re-index the wad guide assembly with the wad ram.

If you need more help, PM with a name and phone number, and will give you call back when I do have some more free time on my hands.

410 mods to the PW machines to make them run like a dream, but need to go back and fix the photo's when I have the the time.
https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... 3&t=359718


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 Post subject: Re: Ponsness Warren 900 help
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:36 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:33 am
Posts: 380
Location: Virginia
HOLY CRAP!!! Thanks for the info!



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