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 Post subject: alliant promo powder in 20 gauge
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:02 pm 
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Location: wingham,ontario,Canada
does any one use promo for 20 gauge I heard some talk about it awhile ago but forget the outcome (is it safe)if so what are so recipes




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 Post subject: re: alliant promo powder in 20 gauge
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:30 pm 
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Skidd041,

Compatability of a powder for a particular gauge is determined by the burning rate of those powders that are in fact compatable with that application.

Promo certainly does not fit that compatability requirement for the 20 ga. Promo is simply way too fast burning for the 20 ga. and it's use in a 20 ga. would result in dangerously high chamber pressures.

Promo has the same burning characteristics as Red Dot and Red Dot loading data is used to determine the loads where Promo is used.

I can assure you that Alliant Technologies, the manufacturer, does not recommend Red Dot for standard 7/8 oz. 20 ga. loads and therefore most certainly would not for the Promo either. However, at one time I think they did have a load or two for lite 3/4 oz. loads, but these loads had very high chamber pressures, and were a poor choice to begin with.

Unique is the powder that Alliant recommends for 20 ga use, and is one of the most popular on the market for use in the 20 ga.

If you want to further discuss this, I recommend you call Alliant and talk with their Ballistic Technicians.

Never rely on word of mouth on using undocumented loads. If it isn't published, then call the manufacturer of the powder and get their recommendations on the use and safety of what you are asking about.

DLM

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 Post subject: re: alliant promo powder in 20 gauge
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:31 pm 
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Location: Eastern Oklahoma
The 11/16 oz. version is my 20 gauge Skeet load.

20 GAUGE PROMO LITE
Hull: AA-HS or any Remington
Shot: 11/16 (best) or 3/4 oz. (Stock MEC charge bars. Actual averages dropped: 11/16 oz. - 300 gr.; 3/4 oz. - 315 gr.)
Powder: 12.5 gr. Alliant Promo (or 15 gr. Unique or Universal. You'd have to determine which MEC bushing drops that.)
MEC Powder Bushing for Promo: No. 21
Primer: Fiocchi 616 (209), W209 or STS209, Rio, Nobel Sport
Wad: Current "new" WAA20 (The older WAA20 wad and others won't crimp well.)
~
Average Velocity: 1232
High Velocity: 1242
Low Velocity: 1227
Extreme Spread: 15
Standard Deviation: 4.9
Pressure: About 9,500 psi using Promo (Tested). Less than 11,000 psi using Unique.
NOTES: This unpublished load using Promo was cooked up by some of us here on SGW. Burns cleaner than any load I've ever used in any shotgun, no matter what gauge/bore. May or may not cycle semiautos. USING PROMO, DO NOT EXCEED 3/4 OZ. OF SHOT IN THIS LOAD. Heavier payloads with this fast powder could raise pressures excessively.

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 Post subject: re: alliant promo powder in 20 gauge
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:40 pm 
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skidd041,

I'll stand corrected, If Cases load, stated above, has been tested, then it would be safe to use.

However, DO NOT attempt to use Promo in a standard 7/8 oz. 20 ga. load.

DLM

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 Post subject: re: alliant promo powder in 20 gauge
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:03 am 
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DLM...

SGW member pumpgun sent some 3/4 oz. versions of the load to someone for pressure testing and got back that average 9,500 psi results.

I have no idea what kind of equipment was used for the test, but I've shot the load extensively in tubes and nothing's cracked yet.

It has very mild recoil and truly does leave the barrel cleaner than any load I've ever put through any shotgun -- bar none.

About a week ago, I sent Paul at Alliant a PM with the recipe, suggesting they give it a thorough test if they ever get the time.

Got this response from Ben:

Quote:
Actually, I have submitted a couple work orders to try Promo in a 3/4 oz 20 ga load, but the lab has not had a chance to try it yet. It will be interesting to see how it works out. If it turns out to be a valid load, I will post it on our web site. Thanks for your note and have a nice day.

Ben


Hopefully, they'll get around to testing it someday, but so far it's been a great Skeet load.

Actually, if you go far enough back through the various editions of Lyman's Shotshell Reloading Handbook you'll find some recipes for 3/4 oz. Red Dot loads.

I use 11/16 oz. because I use 3/4 oz. in 12 gauge and there wouldn't be much sense in duplicating the heavier load in the 20.

I use 5/8 oz. in 28 gauge.

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 Post subject: re: alliant promo powder in 20 gauge
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:22 am 
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Case,
Thanks for the update. It will be interesting as to what Alliant has to say about it.

I personally will probably never use it as I would rather just shoot the 28 ga., if I want that small of a payload. In my opinion, (and just an opinion), I believe the 28 ga. to be the probable winner in that race when it comes to patterns.

DLM

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 Post subject: re: alliant promo powder in 20 gauge
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:49 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:16 am
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Location: wingham,ontario,Canada
thanks for all your replies I new I heard some talk about it before but didn`t dare try it . I will wait untill some thing is published (haven`t yet bought my 20 gauge reloader)but it would be nice to use the same powder just incase they got mixed up some how


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 Post subject: re: alliant promo powder in 20 gauge
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:43 pm
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Location: Texas
Skidd,
After seeing the pressures the Promo generated in the lite 20g round I've been shooting a close copy using 11.5 grains of Clays, the new AA wad and 3/4 lead for most of my skeet practice. I'd bet this load is probably running around 1150 or so but has worked well and is also very clean burning. This load is very low recoil and will not cycle a semi auto but with all the Rem sure shot hulls on the ground (Academy sale) I'll be shootin this for some time. I tend to hoard my 28 HS hulls.


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 Post subject: re: alliant promo powder in 20 gauge
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:12 pm 
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Here's the link to the discussion about Promo an 20 ga. loads.
https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtop ... 8&start=15

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 Post subject: Re: re: alliant promo powder in 20 gauge
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:14 pm 
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Location: Broken Bow, OK
360 wrote:
Skidd,
After seeing the pressures the Promo generated in the lite 20g round I've been shooting a close copy using 11.5 grains of Clays, the new AA wad and 3/4 lead for most of my skeet practice. I'd bet this load is probably running around 1150 or so but has worked well and is also very clean burning. This load is very low recoil and will not cycle a semi auto but with all the Rem sure shot hulls on the ground (Academy sale) I'll be shootin this for some time. I tend to hoard my 28 HS hulls.


If you are going to buy Clays, you might as well buy International. It has recipes published using 12-13 grains for 3/4 oz loads.

http://www.hodgdon.com/data/shotshel/20remrxp-01.php

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 Post subject: re: alliant promo powder in 20 gauge
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:36 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:43 pm
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Location: Texas
I use clays for the lite 20g because it's the powder I use in my 12g loads, it's aready on the shelf. I use unique If I'm loading 7/8 ounce in the 20g. International was my go to powder (listed at the Hodgdon youth load page.) One less powder to keep in stock.


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 Post subject: re: alliant promo powder in 20 gauge
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:40 pm 
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Gotcha. 8)

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 Post subject: re: alliant promo powder in 20 gauge
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:43 am 
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Hi I have just shot approx. 2500 rounds of 7/8 Promo using #22 mec bushing including just 2 days of dove hunting and it works great I think. And I got the recipe from a friend at the gun club who has been shooting it a LONGtime before I and shoots that load 2 to 3 times per week. Would I have had a problem by now with my barrels? THANKS


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 Post subject: Re: re: alliant promo powder in 20 gauge
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:16 am 
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pheasent89 wrote:
Hi I have just shot approx. 2500 rounds of 7/8 Promo using #22 mec bushing including just 2 days of dove hunting and it works great I think. And I got the recipe from a friend at the gun club who has been shooting it a LONGtime before I and shoots that load 2 to 3 times per week. Would I have had a problem by now with my barrels? THANKS

A 7/8 oz. shot load with Promo in 20 gauge?

What's the exact recipe?

Probably be no major problem in a good 20 gauge barrel, but I'd never try it in tubes without having the pressure tested on industrial-grade equipment.

Might be well under maximums -- and it might be a helluva lot higher.



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