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41 - 60 of 74 Posts
glockfire said:
I still have an 870, its just my 26" hunting SG.
If it would make you feel better you could get a short barrel for your hunting 870 for pretty cheap. That's what I did with my Mossberg and now it's like having two guns for the price (and storage space) of one.

I've been playing with the idea of getting some kind of EBR. I would prefer to get one in .308 but won't be able to swing the cost. An AK is actually on my short list should I decide to get one at all.
 
John Pass said:
870_gunman said:
Who in there right mind RELOADS for an ak?? And if an ak is soooo in-accurate, I dare you to stand 100 yards downrange from one. :lol:
First of all your a idiot if you stand 100 yards down range of any type of firearm. But the Russians invented the spray and pray technique the AK 47 is a battle gun the Russians never intended it to be very accurate and accurate barrels costed to much anyway for them to make in mass quanities. Can you buy a accurate barrel for a AK47? Sure. Compare apples to apples compare it to a shotgun with a rifled barrel i bet the shotgun wins.
Depends on what kind of accuarcy you need.

Man sized target at 300-400 yards is enough for me.

I dont need to shoot the wings off of a fly at 200-600 yards but if I did I would use my savage 112 in .223.

As a side note the saftey selector switch on an AK is designed so that during stressfull situations the shooter would push it all the way down removing it from safe and bypassing the full auto mode going directly into semiauto mode. The shooter would have to make a conciuos(sp?) efort to put it in fullauto mode.
 
You should be very happy with your choice.

Is the rifle coverted to pistol grip config or is it still stock?
 
Mr. Pass, if you don't like the way people are taking your comments, try making them a little less inflamatory and I'll bet you get a little more wriggle room. When you jump a statement like a rabid pitbull, there isn't going to be too many that give a #$&! what you have to say, even if it does make sense.

Someone alse made the statement that someone that owns only one shotgun is probably the exception not the rule in this forum. I thought for a minute that I was one of the exceptions, then I remembered my trusty ol' SxS I have tucked away in the closet. I guess I have two, so I can rest easy. :lol:
 
glockfire said:
theotherTexasRich said:
And for an AK? Bah!

:lol: :lol: :wink:
Im building an AR as we speak, dont worry. Just wanted a gun with some history and some oomph.
Yeah, I was just ribbing you. I have not branched out beyond shotties and semi-auto handguns yet, but I hope to eventually get in on the rifle action.
 
theotherTexasRich said:
Yeah, I was just ribbing you. I have not branched out beyond shotties and semi-auto handguns yet, but I hope to eventually get in on the rifle action.
A worthwhile endeavor, I assure you. They are my first love in firearms.
 
Slight thread detour so forgive me.

I'm curious with all of the accuracy talk of what can only be described as a personal combat weapon. Exactly what scenario would you require accuracy beyond a 100yds?? Unless we are talking about real no holds barred break down of civilization you will more than likely have to answer for your actions and justifying a 100yd shot on anything but Bambi or a shambling undead is going to be difficult. Hard to explain how someone 200yds away was an imminent threat to your life.

Not trying to flame anyone just trying to put some real world thought into a lot hypothetical discussion.
 
To me, it's kind like driving a car with a bent rim... Sure it never vibrates bad under 70... and I hardley ever go over 70... but what if some day I want to go 100, for what ever reason... Should I just leave the bent rim, or would you suggest fixing it?

I like the idea of having a gun that shoots better than I do, and I like the idea of having a knife that will take more than I ever hope to dish out... I like having a gun that NEVER jams a lot better than one that "doesn't jam all that often." Just in case... Who knows, my life may depend on it some day, and boy would I feel stupid as I was dying, thinking I should have spent the extra $$$.

When it comes to self defence, when it comes to my life... Not bad just ain't good enough.

bd
 
bel_dad said:
To me, it's kind like driving a car with a bent rim... Sure it never vibrates bad under 70... and I hardley ever go over 70... but what if some day I want to go 100, for what ever reason... Should I just leave the bent rim, or would you suggest fixing it?

I like the idea of having a gun that shoots better than I do, and I like the idea of having a knife that will take more than I ever hope to dish out... I like having a gun that NEVER jams a lot better than one that "doesn't jam all that often." Just in case... Who knows, my life may depend on it some day, and boy would I feel stupid as I was dying, thinking I should have spent the extra $$$.
When it comes to self defence, when it comes to my life... Not bad just ain't good enough.

bd
so are you talking about the AK or AR
 
bel_dad said:
To me, it's kind like driving a car with a bent rim... Sure it never vibrates bad under 70... and I hardley ever go over 70... but what if some day I want to go 100, for what ever reason... Should I just leave the bent rim, or would you suggest fixing it?

I like the idea of having a gun that shoots better than I do, and I like the idea of having a knife that will take more than I ever hope to dish out... I like having a gun that NEVER jams a lot better than one that "doesn't jam all that often." Just in case... Who knows, my life may depend on it some day, and boy would I feel stupid as I was dying, thinking I should have spent the extra $$$.

When it comes to self defence, when it comes to my life... Not bad just ain't good enough.

bd
Logical and well made points.

But the question was in what scenario do you see a +100yd shot being justifiable self-defense?

I have a defensive rifle and its function is to engage improved(ie bad guy in a car) single threats, exposed multiple threats and improved multiple threats at under 75 to 100yds. Beyond 100yds I can employ a reasonable and safe retreat beyond danger or the threat enters into the zone that can be reasonably interpreted as life threatening.

The above will cover 99.9% of all conceivable defensive scenarios. The ones it will not cover fall outside the realm of self-defense and creep more into civil defensive scenarios. I am referring to the breakdown of society where you are defending against armed looters etc or an armed resistance to occupation.

Now given that the likelihood of the latter scenarios is very minuscule and applying the theory of diminishing returns, I ask why spending more for accuracy beyond 100yds is necessary in a defensive rifle?

Example:

a) DPMS M4 carbine $650 Great range queen but not to be relied upon with hard use.

b) DIY M4 using top end parts $1000 Great tactical rifle built for hard use and reliable

c) Noveske N4 light carbine $1900 Top of the food chain tactical rifle

d) Noveske M4 Afghan SS barrel $2450 Top of the food chain tactical rifle with .5 MOA

The jump from a to b produces the greatest improvement for dollars spent the investment of 1.5 to 2x the base cost returns a exponentially higher quality weapon. But the jump from b to c has almost the same cost multiplier and the improvement is negligible if at all. Now the jump from b to d has a cost of 2.5x but how applicable is the return? Does that increase in accuracy really make a difference in a real world defensive scenario??

I believe you would be better served buying a "well suited"(don't like the term good enough) defensive/tactical rifle then take the money you would've spent on unnecessary accuracy and attend some training courses. Tactics that cover most real world scenarios will serve you better than the ability throw tight groups at 200yds.

The preceding is just my opinion it is offered only to stimulate thought and discussion, not to offend anyone.
 
Having lived in s. florida for many years, I know how fast things can go to urban warfare. For me, it is not a remote, but I look at it as more of a given... I have several short range, a good medium range 100-200 and will get a long range quite soon. I shoot sport, so my guns do double duty. I would like to shoot some 1000 yard matches. Would I shoot a burgler at 500 yards, no, but in an urban war situation, I like the ability to reach out and touch someone.

Dependable first, then when more money is available, I would move to the top of the food chain and get the best, or very close to it, as I can. In the coming days, any investment in guns will have a great return, IMO.

best to you,
bd
 
VFR_STPETE, I'm decently sure that I'm never going to have to reach out to touch someone at 150 yards with my Saiga rifle. However that didn't stop me from putting a PSOP scope on it so that I could do just that, and heres my reasoning.

let's say there's a 99% chance that I'll never be in a shtf situation. That's fine, no that's great but for that 1% I think it's good to be prepared. For my personal area of the country(Pacific Northwest) the most likely shtf situation is an earthquake since our major city/cities up here lie upon a fault line much like the one which just caused the disaster in china. this threat goes hand in hand with tsunami. I know it very unlikely but we all saw how things got after Katrina, and being able to deal if absolutely needed with roving bands of pillagers seems like a good idea.

SECONDLY, and the more important reason. It's lots of fun to blow sh*t up at medium range, and I have the right and the ability to do so.

-E
 
For a personal defense firearm I personally think that man/chest sized groups at 300-400 yards is acceptable.

If I need to reach out any farther I have other tools desinged for that purpose and will have time to deploy them.

You must be absoulutley sure the personal defense firearms will go bang and thats why I perfer reliability over 1/2moa acuraccy in those firearms I would consider for that use.

You cant get much more reliable that a pump shotgun or an AK.
 
Damn BD you should have mentioned south florida earlier, that place is a war zone. :shock:

Sorry guys I just like playing devils advocate and hearing everyone's reasons WHY they do something a certain way.

Enjoy the Saiga well built rifles.
 
870_gunman said:
Lol you crack me up, you should do stand up mr.pass. lol very funny stuff. Hmm look at just about anything you own, bet 90% isnt made in the usa. AND anyone who knows, most accuracy issues isnt barrel related with the ak system but ammo. I used to have a mak90 (thats made in china, bet you just love that) that make 3 inch groups at 100 yards, OMG!!!! you mean it didnt put out 1/2 moa???!!!??? my GOD!!, might as well throw stones with a slingshot...lol It would put 30 rounds into 8-10 inches with the gun hot enough to burn skin and make the hand gaurds smoke....measure yourself from arm pit to arm pit, then from the pit of your neck( where the collar bones join) to your belt line, bet its more than 10 inches, and way more than 3. I like ak's but I'd absolutly love to have a fal...but one of my favorites is a m1 carbine... guese you say its to under powered huh mr.pass??
I think i disgree with you. The barrel has a lot to do with acuracy.
This video should help.
 
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