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Judd

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Here is what our crimp looks like:





We have lowered the precrimp only to mess up the hulls by crushing one of the crimps, so we raised it back up and we have adjusted the top nut and bottom nut one turn each direction...this is the best we can come up with and neither of us are happy.

The PW instruction book that you pay $10 for sux at best :D and doesn't help with this hardly at all. What do we need to adjust.

We have went to a shallower crimp only to still have the hole in the center and we have went deep enough that it caved in the center a bit but never have been able to get the pedals to touch.

PLEASE HELP, we're stumped. One thing worth mentioning is this is our first PW press and coming from a MEC sizemaster this thing is going to be freakin' awesome if we can figure this one issue out. We have everything else working.

Also, this load is as follows:

18.5-18.7 grains of Titewad
WAA12SL wad
1oz shot
Win 209 primer (that is seating well)

Tell us what to do and we will give it a try and post results. We have sporting clay league tomorrow so it will be a couple of days before we get back with results. Thanks!
 
It still looks like the pre-crimp, or crimp starter needs to be lowered. Maybe there is a happy medium, you can find, just before you crush the shell??? :?

Next, I have to ask if there is a possibility, this batch of hulls are a little short. Has it done this before? Measure your hulls and see if they are a true 2 3/4 inches long. AA hulls are known to vary in length ..... lets hope you don't have a short batch :?
 
The precrimp needs to come down a touch. It can be vague since it needs some reference so you know how much you moved the stem. I use an Exacto knife and scribe a small line on the stem at where it touches the tool head. Now lower it about 1 milimeter, about half the hole in the crimp. Just hold the precrimp stem securely so it doesn't creep back to the groove left by the setscrew at the old setting.

Now it looks like the top nut might just be OK once the precrimp gets set, or maybe 1/2 turn down; set after the precrimp. The taper crimp is a little much, the lower nut, that looks like it could come up almost 2 turns.

See the fine lines around the rolled edge? Those are the remains of the original precrimp. You want those turned into crimp material in the star; that's about how much to lower the crimp starter.
 
I do not think there is an easy fix for this issue with AAHS hulls. They are too short for older PW presses.

I had the same issue with an 800B. The older die sets before the 800+ are too tall to get the crimps to close on the new AAHS hulls. One solution would be to have someone turn down the dies 1/8 to 1/4 inch so the crimp stations can be lowered. That was a solution posed by PW tech when I called to ask, or convert it to 800+. The easy solution is switch to Rem hulls which will crimp to look like new.

I sold my PW 800B added in what the conversion would cost and bought an 800+. Then decided to go to Rem Hulls anyway.

The low cost solution is switch to rem hulls.
 
I believe the 800CVT has the shortened dies as it has a taper crimp set up.

I agree that you may need to lower the pre-crimp slightly. You might measure the overall length of a factory shell (unfired) and compare it to what you have and make sure the shoulder is in the same place.

I don't load the AA 12 gauge (issues with the basewad- supposedly solved but the rems load fine)- I'm told if you don't have the right wad for the HS hull it can be a problem because the powder cup on the wad will hang up on the basewad on the AA hull. Walla - buckled hulls. The wads should have a slight bevel on the outside diameter of the base of the wad so that it can't hang up on the basewad. The WW12SL wad should be fine. I've read that you need wad pressure to make sure they clear the basewad. My interpretation of what I've read is that if the wad is hung up on the basewad and you try to crimp the shell you will get a hull buckle.

John
 
I have a 800+. I had similar problems with the Grey hulls and DR pink wad. I finally got about a 95% sucsess rate with the Grey hulls, better sucesss with Red AAhs, and no problem with old style.

Try the following: wad seating, just enough to get wad down past the fold; I think your crimp starter needs to be lower, lower it in 1/16s until you are starting to touch - and/or having shot in the pre crimp, then you may need to tweak wad seating. Final crimp should average around .055. Then play with taper spring pressure.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Ok, seems as if the advice is all over the map. Here are pictures of the reload at varying stations.

Primer punched and new seated (used an old one):





Precrimp:



Final crimp prior to being pushed out of the die:



Thanks again for your help guys.
 
It is what jagrdawgr said...
I do not think there is an easy fix for this issue with AAHS hulls. They are too short for older PW presses.
I thought the "c" was the short holders.

You won't get the precrimp down far enough to get the hole closed. After precrimp the hole remaining should be about the size of a primer, the pictured precrimp is only about 1/4 the way there, and I bet the starter is bumping the shell holder.

The shell could be set a BCH more into the shell holder but that wouldn't help the troubles.
 
MAGOO is dead on. You have the older longer dies in that loader. There should be about 1/4 inch of case below the crimp ring visible when the case is in the die. Go to this website and look at the cases in the P/W loader there. http://www.jimsearneye.com/ponsnesswarren.html. The crimp starter needs to be closed to the point that the body of a fired primer will just enter but the rim won't. With those dies you will never be able to taper crimp any hull or close the new AAs enough to remove the hole.

--- Chip King ---
 
yup, shell holders are the long style shell holders. The shoulder of the finished case should be about 1/4" above the top of the die.

You can take them to a machine shop and have them turned down,

or you can order new dies from PW,

or you can load Remington hulls.

john
 
John H said:
yup, shell holders are the long style shell holders. The shoulder of the finished case should be about 1/4" above the top of the die.

You can take them to a machine shop and have them turned down,.

john
Not a doable option since his crimper is not set up for such.

As stated, the Pre crimper needs to be lowered, which you can not do since it will contact the top of the longer dies before you get it low enough to solve the problem. Also, crimper spring tension needs to be increase, which you can not do on the old non-taper crimping dies since it lacks such nut.

The short answer, either switch to STS or old CF win hulls, or you will need to convert the machine to taper crimping to reload the HS hulls without a hole in the crimp.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
Thanks guys...We got into this machine good enough that we can afford to upgrade or get these turned down.

Could one of you post a picture of the shell in the die crimped but before it is pushed out so we can see what we are suppose to be looking at? I would greatly appreciate it.
 
Go to the PW website (www.reloaders.com) there is a note toward the bottom of the home page about watching the machines in action- watch the video on the 800 plus manually loaded. It's a little dark, but it will let you see how the hull sits in the new dies.

You probably need to order the "800B taper crimp set" (under the reloading accessories tab).

john
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
chipking said:
Judd
If you go to the link that I posted it is the shell closest to the camera just to the right of the loader post.

--- Chip King ---
Sorry CK...I completely missed your post earlier.

So...this spawns another question. I cut these off and need a taper crimp kit it is $139...wouldn't I just be better off to do the 800 plus tooling kit that will include all that plus the new dies for our machine and it is just a $100 more with no machine shop intervention?

I have a machine shop guy called and lined up on a buddy deal so it won't cost much but my thought was there will be quite a few other advantages to having that tooling kit upgrade.

Again thanks for y'alls opinion we both appreciate it.
 
You're right on the fringes of what I know. You can buy the 900 tooling set and it will replace pretty much all the individual stations on the crosshead- as well as the dies, the hull seating stem, probably the guts out of the wad seating arm, the powder and shot drop tubes, the pre crimp, and the crimp stations, and the knockout tooling.

You could buy the 800 plus tooling head and you will get all that plus a new aluminum crosshead.

I have a rather involved document that lists some of the differences in the various PW models. I'd be happy to send you a copy if you PM me with an email addy. I'm a little baffled as to how you got long dies on a CVT - I'm thinking either someone traded out die sets on your machine - or you have an 800C or possibly a "B".

Is the wad ram a solid shaft or is it spring loaded?

John
 
Discussion starter · #18 ·
John - my email is basschaser1@verizon.net I am very interested in your documentation.

I also will get my buddy to take some pic's of the press and post them so y'all can see what we have. We actually have 2 of them the other has 20ga dies and then we have 410ga dies too. Then we also got a Hornaday 28ga press and a Spolar hydraulic unit to hook to the PW presses. This was a HUGE score...we were very lucky so we might just get the upgraded parts and make life a whole bunch easier.

Now the decision is to upgrade to the 800+ or 900 but I suspect your documentation will tell us what pieces are different and which we want.

Thank you all so much for your help...this board is AWESOME!
 
Judd I'm 99.9% sure that the 800b tapercrimp set up includes the new shorter dies and the different precrimp and crimp assemblies so you should not need to do anything except change the parts. At 139 not a bad deal.

--- Chip King ---
 
Without seeing what you currently have, but guess would be $190 plus shipping to buy a taper tool kit and new cam assembly, which includes the complete taper crimping tool set (read a lot of parts that you do not need), and the new stripped cam assembly top piece with guide rod and spring (the cup, bottom plate and retainer screw would come with the new tool kit).

-------------------------------------------------

Now to upgrade to taper crimping alone with reusing a lot of the current parts of the tool kit, you need four parts (either bought or made from some of the old parts).

Lower height dies. Here the tool die side walls can be lowered by just lathing.

Taper crimper. Short of a lot of mod'g to the old unit (spring length shortened with new top washer and nut, center rod threaded length longer to work with the new nut system, and ID crimper cup re tapered to create the shell top tapering), your best bet is to just buy a new taper crimper tool alone.

Knock out assembly. Since your unit is a CVT, then you just need to lathe the bottom of the cam assembly to accept the new cup knock out spring. The old thick knock out post will unscrew from the top cam assembly , and you will buy a new knock out spring, the cup guide rod, and the cup with bottom plate/retainer screw for the gauge you are reloading to replace the solid post.

The new style pre-crimper is not needed, and to add to this, the plastic cup just a value engineering over the old steel design to cut production costs alone.

Again, even if you buy a complete new taper tool set, you will still need to buy or mod the cam assembly to work with the new taper crimping knock out tools. What will not come with any of the kits will be the knock out spring, the small knock out guide rod and the bottom stepped cam assembly, so these parts would be above the cost of any 900 taper crimping tool kit.
 
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