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This is the best description I have seen regarding the disasembly of the 391. I have a 391 Tekny Gold and I have a problem. Since I did not proceed properly I have the breech bolt connecting rod hung up in the chamber and can not remove it. Do I have to remove the trigger assembly to allow the connecting rod to pull out?
Apprciate any help.
 
Discussion starter · #62 ·
Without more information I can't be certain what is going on there, but my guess is the hammer is not cocked. In other words, the hammer is up (forward) and in that position it extends through the slot in the middle of the connecting rod.

There are 3 ways I can think of to address this problem:
1. Remove the trigger group. You need to know how to do that anyway, and you need to do it enough times for it to loosen up and get easier to remove, so you might as well go ahead and do that now.
2. Stick a probe of some kind through the slot in the side of the receiver and push the hammer back to the cocked position. You may not be able to do that if the connecting rod has gotten off to the side of the receiver, binding the hammer.
3. Try to get the end of the connecting rod to drop into the cup on the end of the recoil spring, so you can then move the bolt back to cock the hammer. I have done that (put the bolt in the receiver while the trigger group is in) often enough that I probably could do it for you if I was there, but it can be a bear to do the first few times you try it.

Good luck. Let us know how it works out.
 
Re: lowering the hammer, I found the following in the manual:

Page 13: "Keeping the breech bolt retracted approximately 2 cm (1 inch), depress the trigger to lower the hammer."

Page 19: "Lower the hammer on the unloaded gun by pulling the trigger."

So there seems to be some conflict in the manual itself. I always lower the hammer according to the instruction on page 13 (when putting my gun away after separating the barrel). Of course, I do not let the bolt slam forward when the barrel is off, I ease it forward in a controlled way with my thumb on the cocking lever after pressing the bolt release.

The above has no bearing on how to disassemble, Seamus is the expert on that. Just pointing out that there are two ways listed in the manual on lowering the hammer :)
 
Hi folks,

This is my first post on the forum. What a great place with a bunch of great people and very helpful information.

I just bought an AL391 Urika from my uncle, and found Seamus' book. I was so impressed that I just sent him money for a copy. We're lucky to have someone that is so dedicated to the forum.

Dean
 
I have to say Seamus.... your book is a "must have resource" for anyone owning a 391 with any level of gun handling experience.

I've handled guns/weapons for 22 years professionally and for over 30 years on a recreational basis. Despite some experience..... every single page had GREAT info that would have taken me a long time to discover for myself using Beretta schematics, manuals and my own discovery.... and much that you illuminate would have gone forever unknown to me.

I thank you for the time and effort spent assembling this wealth of info for the rest of us. You've saved me time, energy, frustration and kept me from inventing new ways to cuss. LOL

If I see anyone with a 391 at my club you can rest assured I will be actively selling for you and directing people to this forum. I personally think you should publish if there are no overly painful legal obstacles.

Tyler
 
Discussion starter · #68 ·
I really appreciate that, Ty. It is feedback like that which makes the book worth my trouble.

I personally think you should publish if there are no overly painful legal obstacles.
In a sense, I have done that. I got Beretta's permission to use some of their copyrighted materials, and I registered my copyright with the Library of Congress. It really is "published" now, but I am my own publisher, typesetter, layout artist, photographer, printer, binder, distributor, and ad agency. I guess you could say I have cut out all of the middlemen! :lol: Maybe that is why I have not yet made the New York Times Best-seller list! :wink:
 
Hi Seamus,
i am wondering on how to remove the magazine tube from the receiver?!

I tried it and couldn't remove it. (i put some heat on the bottom of the magazine tube and tried without any luck).
i send it to my gunsmith and he couldn't either (with my friend's 391 too)
So 2 391 - he couldn't remove the mag tube. are these suppose to stay attached to the receiver?

Thanks
 
Discussion starter · #70 ·
I'm pretty sure the mag tube just screws in and has some Loctite on it, but I have never tried to remove one. I don't think I will try, either, because I'm afraid I will damage the tube with the wrench or do something wrong with the heat and damage the receiver.

My guess is you either didn't put enough heat on it to break the Loctite, or didn't have the right kind of wrench and vise to turn the tube out, or both. But I must say I am surprised at a gunsmith not being able to do it. Not much of a 'smith, IMHO.

Send it to Cole. Jim Bellegarde at Cole's will get it out with no problem, I'm sure.

Just out of curiosity, why did you and your friend want to remove them?
 
Discussion starter · #71 ·
OK Cedar, now I know why. Its in the other thread about refinishing a receiver.

Here's a thought. Whoever does the re-anodizing has to be a gunsmith. At least he has to have a Federal gunsmith's license (same thing as a dealers FFL) or he wouldn't legally be able to take custody of your receiver while he is working on it. A receiver is defined as a "firearm" under Federal law. So why not just let him remove and re-install the tube?
 
I agree with the other posters - very nice job explaining how to clean a 391.

Although the valve shaft will go in either way, my gun will jam in less than 100 rounds if the long part does not cover the gas ports. When I took the gun apart the gas ports were almost completely plugged. I may have more problems than most folks on this board because my stock is very short (12.5" LOP) and I shoot light shells (2 3/4 dram, 1 1/8).

To make things easier, consider a Briley end cap, it twists apart for easy cleaning. I got frustrated trying to get the snap ring out of the end cap - and back in again once it has been cleaned. A friend who also owns a 391 had the cylinder blow off the barrel because the end cap seized - so it has to be cleaned.

Also, I have a cleaning kit that I think Briley sells that has a socket style wrench that you can use with a drill for the nuts on the gas cylinder. Much quicker and less frustrating than trying to use the hand wrenches that Beretta supplies. You do have to be careful not to cross-thread or overly tighten the nuts.

Regards,
Ellen
 
Discussion starter · #74 ·
Thanks for the post, Ellen. I had been wondering if "salmonella" was a lady. The joke would be even more obvious if you spelled it Salmon Ella :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm glad you mentioned the friend whose gas cylinder came off the barrel. I have heard of several cases like that, and I'm glad to add one more case to my memory bank. I am working on a new, loooong post that will focus on maintenance of the forend nut.

Getting the retaining ring in and out will be a lot easier if you replace the factory ring with a different one. Go to viewtopic.php?f=57&t=79775 and look for two posts by me near the bottom of page 1. The replacement ring is identified by Crown Bolt Inc. as Retaining Ring Internal 7/8". Crown Bolt products are commonly available in hardware stores and in the larger, well-stocked Home Depots, but not necessarily every HD.

2 3/4 dram 1 1/8 oz is really not a particularly light load by 391 standards. A lot of clay target shooters (including me) use that all the time, and a 391 should be able to cycle much lighter loads than that.
 
Good call Seamus on this break in process. I took apart the the recoil spring housing in the stock as you suggested prior to shooting the gun. I used gun scrubber first and could see the black fluid running out the end then I ended up cleaning it like a rifle barrel and had a huge pile of dirty patches, I would have never guessed a new gun could be that dirty. Your posts and help are invaluable.
 
The 2 3/4 1 1/8 ounce load is about the lightest load I can use and have the AL 391 cycle reliably. If the gun has just been cleaned, the 1oz loads and even 7/8 oz loads will mostly be ok, but leaves me wondering at the end of a round whether the gun will continue to cycle. I wonder iwhether one of the reasons I'm not able to shoot as light a shell as others is because stock is so short (12 1/2 LOP - just barely longer than the stock bolt).

It seems many folks in Oregon who shoot 391's also seem to have more problems when it is cold and rainy. They just don't seem to cycle as well in inclement weather and seem to get gummed up faster. After shooting in the rain, at least a cursory cleaning is probably a good idea.

Ellen
 
Discussion starter · #77 ·
Shooting in the rain is one thing I just can't address, because I rarely it. I shoot for fun, and it just isn't fun in the rain. But I suppose if you live in Oregon it is shoot in the rain or don't shoot at all. I certainly agree that cleaning after shooting in the rain is important, if only to dry the gun off. The one time I did shoot in heavy rain (competition, and I couldn't back out), I noticed the forearm swelled enough to change the fit. I would dry the metal quickly and the wood slowly.

If the recoil spring tube hasn't been shortened, I doubt the short stock affects cycling.

Several things you (Salmon Ella) have said makes me think you must be shooting very dirty ammo. My guess is Federals or Estate. Am I right? Cleaner ammo should not gum up the gun that quickly.
 
I mostly shoot either Remington (gun club), Rio or Fiocchi ammo. My husband (Sam :wink:) and I almost never shoot Federal or Estate because it is so dirty. The Rio's are older so maybe that is a problem. Some of my friends said some of the loads sounded odd the last time I shot with them.

Ellen
 
Discussion starter · #79 ·
Rio's are generally pretty clean, but is typical for them to have an occasional off-sounding blooper in cold weather, and when they do that they leave a lot of powder residue because it doesn't burn completely.
 
Seamus O'Caiside said:
Rio's are generally pretty clean, but is typical for them to have an occasional off-sounding blooper in cold weather, and when they do that they leave a lot of powder residue because it doesn't burn completely.
OOPs I deleted the body of the message since I though I was sending a PM
 
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