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talalkhan

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I am residing in Pakistan! Prices of shotguns are way high if compared to that in Europe or America! I purchased Beretta Urika 2 Gold (If convert) at 2980 USD$. before that I owned Winchester Super X3 and prior to that Beretta Urika Synthetic. I sold Synthetic for its weight that was too much for me and quite disturbing on upland shoots. Winchester was bit better in weight and its shouldering was marvelous. But there were problems with its bolt and it used to get jammed in a way that you had to put a lot of force to cock it!
Beretta Urika 2 Gold was the gun I used to fantasize a lot as I have never been to this forum and couple of my friends have it and as per their feedback it is THE GUN! no problems! I purchased it couple of weeks back. Under its barrel it is marked CA in a small square which means it is manufactured in 2006! So far I have not even fired more than two boxes but all mix some heavy some light loads. Have not observed any FTF or FTE so far but only a single incident of missfire...that particular incident was with locally produced top of the line No.7 cartridge. Otherwise is working fine with No.4, 8 and 6! Missfire! was first ever case in my career of shooting of over 16 17 years! I have used double barrels SxS O/U semis but no missfires! I did not realise on the hunt that what has happened as when I pulled the trigger it was click and a cartridge came out of magazine tube and got fixed in a career along with one missed and lying in chamber! I thought that I probably touched the small holding button on career but later when I checked the cartridge it had a striking mark on its primer but it was somehow appeared to me as so thin. Now, the question is....it because my gun is still going through its break in period or is it a common fault of U2 Gold! After reading couple of hundred posts over here I am shivering with thoughts that what would happen next FTF due to career, FTE due to someother reasons and etc. Had I read these all posts I would have purchased some other gun preferably Benelli Crio Deluxe...or Benelli CrioComfort. Over here due to some restrictions am no able to order a new career or any part not even a simple choke tube! Need to have a gun that works JUST FINE! Do let me know what should I do with the missfire thing? SHould I wait till it happens again or should I get the bolt assembly out of the gun and clean it of cosmolines!
 
Well...for starters, I would definitely make sure that you clean all the factory cosmoline and grease from the action and the barrels. I would recommend that for ANY gun, no matter if it's a semi-auto, SxS, pump, or O/U. Secondly....my question to you is, what oz. of load are you shooting? Are you shooting anything smaller than 1 oz. loads? I also have the Urika that I use to hunt quail and dove and haven't had any trouble with it. That being said, I always shoot at least 1 oz. loads. I know that the Extrema has had some carrier problems but hopefully that's not true with your Urika.
Give it a good scrubbing and try to stick with quality shells. I know that powder and lead are expensive right now but I would rather pay a little more and be assured that I am getting a quality shell. Hope this helps. :)
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the suggestion bro! I have gone through the process of cleaning my gun to the last nut! i.e. getting rid of any cosmoline present anywhere on the gun. Of other thousand reasons one could be the cartridge malfunctioning. I mean gun seems perfectly fine to me....Over here in Pakistan I have not come across any such incident of FTFs or FTEs. Missfiring cartridge normally happens with cartridges. It is just that after reading wierd posts over here at the forum I got puzzled about my gun! I am not anymore...As the forum says I love my Beretta!!! Beretta in Pakistan is widely accpeted and trusted gun! and probably it is also one of the top selling brand in Pakistan. Problems described over here at forum are quite new to me. I discussed them with my different friends using the same gun and none has ever encountered such problem. But, of course over here whatever problems are presented by people around the world can help one to take precaution and to understand the possibilities of malfunctioning of the gun! Over All....I LOVE MY BERETTA :wink:
 
So, talalkhan, please tell us what kind of birds do you hunt in Pakistan? Or do you just shoot clay targets? I'm very curious!

Thank you!
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
Well, It is a very wide variety of birds available in Pakistan to shoot! What we normaly shoot are: Black Partridge, Grey Partridge, Bar headed Geese, Quails, Oriental Turtle Doves, Quails, A wide variety of ducks, Pheasants, Snow Partridge, Chokers "Red Legged" etc..... As the gun is still in a warm up period more questions are coming up :? 1. How long Golden Birds stay on the gun ???? :lol: 2. On firing when the bolt slams backward appearance of marking on the Bolt's slot extreme rareward as if color is fading..is it normal? Misfire was probably due to cartridge..Otherwise I fed it with different loads today and it ate all and digested well :p
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Dear Gentlemen! What I am considering serious fix for me seems not so serious to others as there has not been a single feed back on the problem I have mentioned! Let me try to be precise "I had been unable to upload picture or it would have been easier to all to know the nature of the problem"
Bolt lever/handle is retracting more than normal (As I assume) and it is having a friction with the rail or slot in which it moves! that fricition is at the end of the rail where the rail makes a U. Color has started fading from there! I don't know what is causing it! If I cock the gun then the Bolt lever/handle stops few mm/cm ahead but during firing it probably or say definitely hits the end of rail! What could be the probable cause? Please somebody suggest!!!!
 
You definately have a problem if the bolt handle is striking the rear of the u-shaped slot upon recoil of the bolt.

My son's 391 bolt handle stops about 1 cm short of the end of the 'U'.

There is a real possiblity the bolt handle could crack the receiver where it is impacting at the base of the 'U'.

You should send the gun back to Beretta under the 1 year warranty program and demand they either fix the problem or replace the gun.

Don't delay as the problem you have described could cause you injury if the receiver were to fracture from the bolts impact. :shock:
 
Here I am trying to upload a pic of Urika 2 Gold sent by Talal Khan and a pic of my Urika Gold and in both pics a mark in bolt slot in U section is visible. My gun is 7 years old now and is working great though. Talal khan is worry about any possible breakage/malfunction later.

Talal Khans Urika 2 Gold

Image


My 7 years old Urika Gold

Image
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
Bravo Zubair! I was trying to upload the picture but had some problems! Thanks for taking time in uploading the pictures and now one can have a comparision as well! It seems like its only you and me on the same boat :wink: The only difference is that of a time! Mine started doing it right out of the box and your's have probably developed it over a period of 7 years. Question that remains unanswered is the probable cause! Let's see if other fellow members come up with the same observation and have a theory to describe the nature of problem! Check your guns buddies and please give some feedback! As described earlier, At Pakistan, warrantty for beretta doesn't work! Once purchased we have to live with the same gun till it works. Looking forward for some positive feedback
Regards,

Talal Khan
 
Talal

Pictures are worth a thousand words...I can see clearly now that the issue will not result in your receiver cracking and causing you personal injury. :D

My observation is that the vibrational harmonics of the shot being fired are transmitted from the chamber of the barrel and travel forward to the end of the barrel as well as backward towards the recoil pad (and your shoulder).

On the way to the recoil pad, these 'vibrations' concentrate on points where curves or bends in the receiver concentrate them. That is why it the black finish is flaking away from the end of the rail as well as from the rear of the ejection port, as shown in the pictures.

The good news, is there is no danger in what is occuring...you just have to put up with the concentration of vibrational harmonics affecting the receiver finish in these 'concentration areas', resulting in the light colored areas.

Enjoy the gun and shoot well. :D
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
WoW! Cleboje, tell you what I was much relaxed earlier as Zubair told me not to worry much about this minor issue as his gun has the same marks. Later, your earlier mail dropped like a bomb :lol: Later, Zubair decided to put the pictures of both guns on the forum and get the feedback from experts here! Your mail for the time being is again working as a relaxant for me and at the same time I have recieved a mail from Rich Cole and see what it says :

"This is a heavy load if I understand you mean a 36 gram load of shot.
Your gun therefore need to exhaust more gas from the exhaust valve at
the end of the barrel gas cylinder. This means one must weaken the
spring on the gas cylinder in order to allow it to open more freely.
This will allow some gas to be directed through this relief valve and
slow down the bolt speed. The gun should eject the empty hulls about
six to eight feet distance. To weaken the spring one must grind the
out side diameter making a cylindrical flat area on the wire of the
spring. Regards and good luck"

Rich Cole
Cole Gunsmithing


:p Now need your opinions again :p
 
First, let me state that Rich Cole is a guru when it comes to the Beretta line of guns...he really knows his stuff! :D

If Rich says to grind a flat on the outside edge of the exhaust spring to weaken the spring, then it must work...but I have no practical idea on how to do this extremely technical operation safely. :(

The ever-changing angle of the circular spring would seem to make the grinding operation very problematic. But if you somehow damage the spring, you can always contact Rich to buy a new one. :wink:

You may want to use a black permanent marker to 'paint' a line on the back of the bolt handle and then do a comparison shooting of your regular shells versus a lighter recoiling shell to see if the bolt speed can be adjusted by changing the shell type. If the mark on the bolt handle remains after the test firing, you can be certain the bolt handle is not the culprit behind the mark on the receiver rail. :idea:

That way you would not have to grind on a spring without any published tolerances to adhere to...

Best of Luck and let us know how it works out.
 
Rich Cole did sell (and as far as I know, still does) a 391 valve spring set that includes a stronger one for use with very light loads, and a lighter spring for heavy loads. I don't know why he didn't mention that - maybe he just doesn't want to look like he is trying to make a profit on your misfortune. :?
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
Dear Cleboje, Rich cole as you mentioned is definitely the guru regarding Beretta firearms. I by chance sent him a mail and explained my fix as well as the reason to find a solution as in Pakistan beretta guns rather any expensive gun becomes your fortune or misfortune forever as there is no warrantty & technical experties available.
Whatever Rich Cole has described in his mail sounds too much complicated and technical for me though that is the only solution! Instead of ruining my gun by trying this all myself I would prefer trying the GUN out as Zubair did.. His gun is still working and Zubair uses his gun on duck shoots as well as uplands very frequently. Black Marker!!! 8) well I already have used it but have not shot from gun again. If those marks appear again! I'll use black marker or Beretta black bernishing or barnishing something like that to keep it in a condition :wink:
Yeah another thing! there are small tiny thin marks behind the bolt handle that indicates that the handle had minor friction with the U shape edge! :mrgreen: Don't know what happens next.... MAN now I have to live with the gun!
 
Talal

Do as Seamus mentioned and contact Rich Cole to ask about the 391 spring kit. 8)

The weaker spring in the kit may be just what is needed to govern the bolt speed and prevent the bolt from overtravel and peening the U of the receiver rail.

As I am always telling my wife, "I have to spend the money on something" - better to spend it on guns and gun-stuff than on fast cars, booze or wild women! :lol:

Cleboje
 
Talal, I am sorry to jump in, but i can't think of a way of why it is doing what you are experienced!!
If you remove the trigger group; you should see the bolt (when it is in the back position) touching the end of the receiver (metal to metal) and bolt handle still away from the U part of the receiver.

Anyone knows technically how the bolt handle can reach the U part, since it should be stopped by the inside of the receiver metal?
is the metal molecules shrink during excessive force?
 
Discussion starter · #20 ·
Dear Cedar,
you are most welcome :) If you read earlier posts, I mentioned somewhere that I have solved mystery to an extent that the damage is "PROBABLY" because of bolt handle touching the reciever's surface! But it remains mystery as to why it does so??? I have checked my gun by manually cocking it and several other check ups but bolt handle does not go that far back and does not touches the reciever's surface in the slot where it moves!
Getting springs from Cole is a solution as mentioned by other brothers but is it so that I have to replace springs every time I change the cartridge??? I mean heavier spring for lighter loads and lighter spring for heavier loads! What is the convenience of the gun if I have to do it all the times? That nasty spring is supposed to be COMPENSATING THING for different loads! If that is the case then the best option is available with turkish/russian semis where you just have to put the piston upside down instead of screwing off the whole assembly and replacing the spring and in the process have to take care of a matter or two as well!
 
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