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the day you load one shell in the wrong barrel and lose a bird with a 'click'....will make you a 2 hole'r real quick.

another oversight is most people forget that your doubles second shot in an o&u is always out the second bbl. yes both bbls are tuned to shoot perfectly, but why practice shooting the second shot out of the first bbl when its the second bbl that hits the bird on doubles? oh please dont bring up the kick idea. all kick happens after the shot is gone.

if your bottom bbl breaks the outgoing bird, and the top bbl breaks the incoming in doubles, practice it with the singles too. if skeet is about doing the same thing everytime, isnt that what youd be doing?

think it out.
 
Bob, we are shooting, in essence, something the size of a garbage can lid and we are not trying to hit an aspirin with a bb gun. You do not need the kind of precision that may or not change with a different barrel. And as far as recoil, the gun begins to recoil with the combustion in the chamber and the movement of the shot column up the barrel. It will certainly finish after the shot is on it's way but it begins way before that. Does it affect the shot? It shouldn't, if you do your part.
 
you seem to be focusing on the recoil arguement. the thread im responding to is the need for having to shoot 2 shots from the same bbl, instead of both bbls, the way 2 shots are suppose to be shot out of an o&u. are we agreeing on this?

if we were to follow your arguement, then the recoil from one shot is the same as the next, thus why shoot high and low from the same low bbl? muzzle climb and recoil has no bearing.
 
I took lessons from a great instructor (at one time #3 in the world) who taught 1 target, 1 shell. He felt if you were loading 2, you were thinking about your second single before you broke your first.

Focus should be on your next target, not 1 down the road.
 
2lo8s said:
I took lessons from a great instructor (at one time #3 in the world) who taught 1 target, 1 shell. He felt if you were loading 2, you were thinking about your second single before you broke your first.

Focus should be on your next target, not 1 down the road.
So how did he instruct his students to focus on the first shot of doubles while loading two shells? It seems rather contradictory to think that a shooter can't focus on the first shot on singles while loading two shells, but can do so while shooting doubles. :?

Does he also tell his shooters not to bring rain gear to the tournament because doing so would cause them to think about rain instead of shooting the targets? :?
 
No bob, 2 issues. There is no need to shoot the second barrel or practice with the second barrel specifically, the gun will perform the same. I mentioned recoil in regards to your comment that it occurs after the shot has left the barrel and I do not agree with that.
 
My theory on loading two is this. (Not necessarily universally accepted).

When you step on the station, you have two singles to shoot. (At least two). You load two shells, set up and shoot the first target. Now, I don't want anything on my mind but setting up and shooting the second target. I do NOT want my mind wandering of on the vagaries of loading another shell, I want it on addressing that next target. This is impossible if your mind is on a reload.

After the first shot, lower the gun and set up for the next shot, THEN remount the gun, go to your hold point and call for the bird. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. It works quite well for me. One holeing does not.

DLM
 
Awwww, DLM, but you don't know how much your subconscious is distracted by that second shell in the gun. There is that little voice inside you that is whispering "You can't possibly think about the first target if you have TWO shells in the gun."

OTOH, if you have only one shell in the gun on singles, that little voice inside you is whispering "DLM, now you can fully concentrate on that first target because after you break it you will only have to remember to break open the gun, extract the empty, place the empty in your pouch, find a loaded shell, place the loaded shell in the gun (in the proper chamber of course), close the gun, remount the gun, go to your hold point, call for the target, and break it."

See how simple it is? Everyone knows that it's less distracting to think about 10 things than it is about one thing. :wink: :wink: :lol: :lol:
 
According to DLM's philosophy one should load four shells on the doubles station (if the gun will hold four). :)

Evidently some ranges feel loading two for singles is a safety issue. There is an old sign at the range that I shoot that states "load one shell for singles until certified". Never did find out what certified means.

Some ranges do not allow loading two for singles at station 7. One may swing towards the left when dodging the fragments of H-7 that was just broken. I have seen that happen twice this past year. Seems that could happen at station one also but I have never seen it happen.
 
Now that's Funny David :p :p :p . Also quite an exageration. Load four.GEESSH!!

As to the safety thing, it is a possibility, I guess, but most all ranges do not have those rules, and neither does NSSA, who is very anal about safety rules, and for good reason.

I would think it a possibility with a newby, but a seasoned shooter has the "Gun Downrange" thing so deeply ingrained in his regimine, that I don't see that happening. The only time I have seen it happen is with a very young shooter just learning the game, and with these guys, we always limit them to one shell at all stations except for Doubles for safety reasons, because they may be a bit unpredictable.
 
I load two in the 20, 28, and 410. I load one in 12 gauge. I am no faster or slower either way. My concentration is neither better nor worse with either.

I load one-at-a-time in the 12 gauge simply because I use an automatic in 12 gauge. I only get two malfunctions per round. Why fritter those away with possible malfunctions between singles?

When I started, Rules III-D, III-D-1-a, and III-D-1-b had just been added or amended. Before those changes, there was more of an onus on the shooter to insure his automatic went into battery. It was still common then to see double loaders with automatics check to see if their bolts were closed between singles. Right-handers had to give their autos a twist to get a good look at the bolt. World Champion Tommy Heffron had a bit of a flourish when he flipped 'Young Reliable' on its side to peek at the bolt. Some still gave the bolt handle a bump.
 
That decision has been taken away from us- we aren't allowed to load one shell for English skeet so if you shoot both English & NSSA skeet you want to have the same routine- I do however think it would be safer on stand 7 to have that option particularly in bad weather (tho we shoot low 7 1st for safety). We are used to the pace of loading 2 so when you get someone on your squad who loads only it's.............................................slow :shock:
 
DL, when I'm loading the second shell, I'm not thinking of loading, but rather visualizing the next shot. The loading is an automatic process so it is not a distraction to me, but rather, gives me the time to reorganize and not blow through the 2nd shot. This is especially helpful if I did not hit the previous shot. Virtually every time when I was loading 2, if I missed the first and went straight to the second, I'd end up Dutching the pair. I find just the couple of seconds it takes to load the second shot, gives me time to clear my head, let it go, and move on the the next shot.

I think the point is, not all shoes fit. This is, not all people think alike, so what works for one does not work for all, and so some are ardent 1 holers, some ardent 2 holers. I think they are both trying to do what works for them.

Jim
 
Allow me to hi-jack this thread for a minute. I am very interested in the following quote and the ruling that goes along with it.

I load one-at-a-time in the 12 gauge simply because I use an automatic in 12 gauge. I only get two malfunctions per round. Why fritter those away with possible malfunctions between singles?
Are you are telling us that a jam (malfunction) between singles and before calling for the second target would be recorded as one our the two allowed gun malfunctions in a round. I do not see it that way.

Will others please give me clarification on this ruling.
 
Zac Crawford said:
Allow me to hi-jack this thread for a minute. I am very interested in the following quote and the ruling that goes along with it.

I load one-at-a-time in the 12 gauge simply because I use an automatic in 12 gauge. I only get two malfunctions per round. Why fritter those away with possible malfunctions between singles?
Are you are telling us that a jam (malfunction) between singles and before calling for the second target would be recorded as one our the two allowed gun malfunctions in a round. I do not see it that way.

Will others please give me clarification on this ruling.
This is how the rule reads. I guess it can be interpreted in various ways.

D. GUN MALFUNCTIONS
The shooter must not be considered at fault if he/she has
complied with the manufacturer's operating instructions for
loading the gun, and the gun does not fire. In the case of a
gun going into battery (locking closed) for the first shot on
doubles or any shot on singles, if the shooter has closed the
action in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions,
and if the bolt appears visually to be closed, the failure of a
gun to fire shall be scored as malfunction.
1. Semi-Automatics
a. On a semi-automatic the shooter is not required to
push forward or strike the breech bolt retraction
lever to insure locking the gun. This is a normal gun
function.
b. The shooter must load the shell or shells into the gun
and see that the action appears closed. If he/she
loads two shells on singles or doubles, and if the
second shell fails to go into the chamber or is thrown
out of the gun, it shall be scored a malfunction unless
a no bird is declared on the second shot.
 
Bruce, what you posted validates what was said. In all of those circumtances it was stated that it was a gun malfunction. The line about "The shooter must not be considered at fault if he/she has complied with the manufacturer's operating instructions for loading the gun, and the gun does not fire" means that it would not be considered a lost bird. It would still be a gun malfunction.
 
Agreed, but you only get two gun malfunctions per round, then you have to either fix the gun/change guns, or your third malfunction and so on without the two above happening would result in a lost targets there after.

and no,
If one failed to notice the gun was jammed and attempted to shoot the second target then yes (target losted).
If you load two shells into a auto loader, shoot the first target, then go to shoot the second target and the gun is jammed/ does not fire the second round (remember to hold the trigger until the ref checks everything out), then it is still a gun malfunction, and counts as one of your two allowed gun malfunctions per gun, per round. Same goes for the first shot as well being a gun malfunction as long as you loaded the gun correctly to start with.

As for if the primer has been struck, then this falls into the ammo failure category, and here you are allowed two as well, then much switch to a new factory box to reset the ammo fault count back to zero again for that round.

And in either causes above, replacing or repairing the shotgun/swapping out to new factory box of ammo after two above faults will not result in a lost target due to either failures.
 
Dano523 said:
Agreed, but you only get two gun malfunctions per round, then you have to either fix the gun/change guns, or your third malfunction and so on without the two above happening would result in a lost targets there after.

and no,
If one failed to notice the gun was jammed and attempted to shoot the second target then yes (target losted).
If you load two shells into a auto loader, shoot the first target, then go to shoot the second target and the gun is jammed/ does not fire the second round (remember to hold the trigger until the ref checks everything out), then it is still a gun malfunction, and counts as one of your two allowed gun malfunctions per gun, per round. Same goes for the first shot as well being a gun malfunction as long as you loaded the gun correctly to start with.
You added something to my statement. I answered his question with a yes meaning it would be a gun malfunction. You added target lost. The question was......

Are you are telling us that a jam (malfunction) between singles and before calling for the second target would be recorded as one our the two allowed gun malfunctions in a round.
 
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