Re: Sporting Clays Shotguns...I'm new to this forum so if this has been discussed before, please bear with me. I'm seeking an unbiased comparative analysis of these three companies, i.e., available resources of the company, product quality including workmanship, product accessibility, company warranty policies, ease and timeliness of repair (when necessary), and any other "pearls" that may help in my decision of purchase. It seems central Illinois is scarce on offerings. Thanks!
Blaser vs. Perazzi vs. Krieghoff
DunkinDonut
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Re: Sporting Clays Shotguns...I'm new to this forum so if this has been discussed before, please bear with me. I'm seeking an unbiased comparative analysis of these three companies, i.e., available resources of the company, product quality including workmanship, product accessibility, company warranty policies, ease and timeliness of repair (when necessary), and any other "pearls" that may help in my decision of purchase. It seems central Illinois is scarce on offerings. Thanks!
I can opine on Krieghoff. I own two.
Krieghoff is a solid German company with a long history and an enormous customer base.
My two Krieghoffs have been through thousands of rounds without issues. They are heavily made guns designed to go through tens of thousands of rounds before needing any service.
I bought both guns from Hal duPont. He has been totally committed to my satisfaction. I assume I am not unique.
Krieghoff does my servicing they have been responsive and have completed all work is a satisfactory manner. I have my guns inspected and tuned every year.
I have shot all three guns you mention. Krieghoff is my top pick for a target gun. I like the Blaser trigger, but I don't like the feel of the gun. I like the Perazzi, but my friends who own them have had servicing problems with them.
Krieghoff is a solid German company with a long history and an enormous customer base.
My two Krieghoffs have been through thousands of rounds without issues. They are heavily made guns designed to go through tens of thousands of rounds before needing any service.
I bought both guns from Hal duPont. He has been totally committed to my satisfaction. I assume I am not unique.
Krieghoff does my servicing they have been responsive and have completed all work is a satisfactory manner. I have my guns inspected and tuned every year.
I have shot all three guns you mention. Krieghoff is my top pick for a target gun. I like the Blaser trigger, but I don't like the feel of the gun. I like the Perazzi, but my friends who own them have had servicing problems with them.
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The difference, of course, being that I got my 682 Gold E Sporting in great shape for $2300...
Perazzi vs. Krieghoff? I'd call that personal preference. K80s are very popular around here, among good Clays shooters with the means, and who shoot the volume that justifies the guns. But when I shot in San Diego, I saw a lot more Perazzis.
You'll really have to at least handle some to decide. Perazzi and Krieghoff have both proven themselves in international competition. They're great guns. Which one you like, depends on you.
But short of spending P or K money, it sure is hard to beat what Beretta and Guerini offer.
I shoot, but don't seriously compete at, Sporting Clays, and my Perazzi money has been sunk into gun dogs, a number of bird guns and hunting, with no regrets.
If I do upgrade, a Perazzi is probably my choice. But some excellent shooters and instructors around here do quite well with Berettas, and I haven't felt compelled to replace the 682 yet, either. Blasers don't do that much for me, though if a gun is "magic" for you, it's hard to argue with that!
Perazzi vs. Krieghoff? I'd call that personal preference. K80s are very popular around here, among good Clays shooters with the means, and who shoot the volume that justifies the guns. But when I shot in San Diego, I saw a lot more Perazzis.
You'll really have to at least handle some to decide. Perazzi and Krieghoff have both proven themselves in international competition. They're great guns. Which one you like, depends on you.
But short of spending P or K money, it sure is hard to beat what Beretta and Guerini offer.
I shoot, but don't seriously compete at, Sporting Clays, and my Perazzi money has been sunk into gun dogs, a number of bird guns and hunting, with no regrets.
If I do upgrade, a Perazzi is probably my choice. But some excellent shooters and instructors around here do quite well with Berettas, and I haven't felt compelled to replace the 682 yet, either. Blasers don't do that much for me, though if a gun is "magic" for you, it's hard to argue with that!One additional comment on Blaser that would apply if you were considering a previously owned gun.
The guns being sold now have a much better reputation for quality than the early guns.
I would not agree with an earlier post that Blaser and Beretta are co-equals. My opinion based on having owned several 687 Berettas and, currently, a DT10 Beretta and shooting/examining a friend's Blaser is that the edge on quality goes heavily to Beretta. This especially applies to the Beretta DT10.
I suggest you consider the Beretta DT10 in your research if the intended use is sporting clays. Another option is the A-10 from CSMC. I own one and it is an incredibly well built gun patterned after the Beretta SO5 and a tiny fraction of the cost.
The guns being sold now have a much better reputation for quality than the early guns.
I would not agree with an earlier post that Blaser and Beretta are co-equals. My opinion based on having owned several 687 Berettas and, currently, a DT10 Beretta and shooting/examining a friend's Blaser is that the edge on quality goes heavily to Beretta. This especially applies to the Beretta DT10.
I suggest you consider the Beretta DT10 in your research if the intended use is sporting clays. Another option is the A-10 from CSMC. I own one and it is an incredibly well built gun patterned after the Beretta SO5 and a tiny fraction of the cost.
While you're attempting to approach your purchase by analyzing things logically, ultimately your decision will and should be independent of your above questions. Since Blaser has "bought" a large # of the top shooters in the country, they've devoted alot of resources to the US and have warrantee and repair people that are independent of their company (i.e. Jim Greenwood the stock maker). I've had at least two of each of the three manufacturers that you mentioned and found that the "quality" differences are irrelevant (other than an early Blaser that I had that didn't work). You'll probably be happier in the long run if you make your decision on which "feels" the best to you and which has the best swing dynamics. Blaser, Perazzi and Krieghoff run from light to heavy in that order. Recoil is unsurprisingly most notable (to most people) with the Blaser and least with the K-gun. Take away the high-rib super-sporter options and you'll find (also unsurprisingly) that the Blaser has the highest swing dynamics and the K-gun the lowest (measured on a MOI machine). That's not necessarily a good thing for all shooters in a competition gun. They are all well built and will all outlive you. They will also all break and will all need repair eventually, if you shoot competition. You will hear damning condemnation and outlandish praise on all three depending upon who you speak to---ignore it all. Everyone's walk is unique. JMO, YMMV.DunkinDonut said:
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Look at what is being shot in the winners circles at the Olympics. I read in a recent Gun Digest publication on Sporting Clays, Skeet and Trap, and I wish (I could remember the author's name,) that the German Olympic team all shoot Perazzis. I seem to see a lot of DT-10s in those winner's circles too including that 18 year old kid from Georgia who won gold for the U.S. in skeet.
casonet, what does that young, Olympic try-out guy that shoots bunker at Saddle and Sirloin shoot? I understand from Jay Reno that he recently decided to shoot for the Army MTU???? I was there once and it looked like he was shooting a P-gun IIRC.casonet said:
If possible, try before you buy all of the high end guns you are interested in. The sporting clays Nationals are coming up and they always have vendors there to allow demo of various guns. I wish I had taken this approach. If you end up not liking what you bought (if you bought it without first demo-ing it), you may end up taking a bath on it resale wise, even if you only shot it a few times. It's a buyers market now and I have seen a lot of "fired only a few times" guns pop up for sale, priced at a signficant loss to the owner. Been there, done that, I lived and learned.
45: that would be the Glove Grip stock.....my gun is at Giacomo right now being finished (I am getting a high gloss treatment for the stock and his in house nickeling of the receiver). I'll be out of pocket for 2 weeks starting this weekend for my much delayed summer vacation so once I return hopefully it would had been shipped already and waiting for me at my local dealer for pick-up. I'll of course post pics and give some initial feedback on it.45forme said:
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45forme, for all practical purposes, Bunker = Perazzi. I'm not sure what other makers even make it a point to offer International Trap guns in the US. I'd love to see whether those new simpler machines (from Champion, I think) make it easier to find a Bunker range here.
Sporting Clays is host to a lot more variety in the O/U end of things.
Sporting Clays is host to a lot more variety in the O/U end of things.
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45forme,
Seth was shooting a Perazzi when i last saw him at the Saddle and Sirloin bunker and with a 28 inch barrel no less. Yes, he will soon be shooting for the Army. Hopes to be in the 2014 Olympics. The kid is real good at bunker but can't shoot skeet. Go figure. At bunker he takes that Perazzi and breaks the target then hit a chip with his second shot.
Seth was shooting a Perazzi when i last saw him at the Saddle and Sirloin bunker and with a 28 inch barrel no less. Yes, he will soon be shooting for the Army. Hopes to be in the 2014 Olympics. The kid is real good at bunker but can't shoot skeet. Go figure. At bunker he takes that Perazzi and breaks the target then hit a chip with his second shot.
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This is a useful and practical discussion which should be helpful to a number of folks, myself included. I'm awaiting my retirement buyout in about seventeen months at which time I too will be purchasing that long-awaited "special" O/U.
The three brands mentioned here as well as Zoli, Beretta and CG or on my research list. The list may well grow as well. Ultimately fit and feel will be the deciding factor for me. I'll be competing mostly on the local low-key level with a few other tournaments thrown in so super-endurance should not be much of an issue. Perhaps I'll need two O/U's, as I'll be doing a lot of hunting too and although I should be able to tote around a 7-71/2 lb. gun for hunting, that probably won't do me well for skeet and clays. Right now I'm making due with my hunting guns for clays until I finally (Lord willing) get the retirement gun.
45forme...could you be so kind as to explain the "swing dynamics" issue you mentioned and the MOI machine? I've heard the terms but still am in need of some education on those issues. I'm assuming the heavier guns start slower but tend to not cause as much trouble with abruptly stopping the swing, where as the higher swing dynamic (lighter?) guns are the opposite.
I'm a swing through (for now anyway) shooter and tend toward lighter guns but I'm also very recoil sensitive and likely would greatly benefit from learning to handle a heavier gun? Any thoughts on how the swing dynamic differences might effect me?
Thanks to all for the informative and helpful posts.
The three brands mentioned here as well as Zoli, Beretta and CG or on my research list. The list may well grow as well. Ultimately fit and feel will be the deciding factor for me. I'll be competing mostly on the local low-key level with a few other tournaments thrown in so super-endurance should not be much of an issue. Perhaps I'll need two O/U's, as I'll be doing a lot of hunting too and although I should be able to tote around a 7-71/2 lb. gun for hunting, that probably won't do me well for skeet and clays. Right now I'm making due with my hunting guns for clays until I finally (Lord willing) get the retirement gun.
45forme...could you be so kind as to explain the "swing dynamics" issue you mentioned and the MOI machine? I've heard the terms but still am in need of some education on those issues. I'm assuming the heavier guns start slower but tend to not cause as much trouble with abruptly stopping the swing, where as the higher swing dynamic (lighter?) guns are the opposite.
I'm a swing through (for now anyway) shooter and tend toward lighter guns but I'm also very recoil sensitive and likely would greatly benefit from learning to handle a heavier gun? Any thoughts on how the swing dynamic differences might effect me?
Thanks to all for the informative and helpful posts.
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Grouse Gunner,
Take your time. One of the reasons that Perazzi guns are so expensive is that notwithstanding the fact that they are all hand built in relatively small quantities, when you order one you can get it custom fit to your own frame. That extra bit of service costs money. Quality wise, they are all top notch. I own several Beretta custom shop ASE 90s and a couple of Perazzis. Personally, I think my Berettas are finished out a little better than my Perazzis, but we are talking about small differences. Never owned a K gun, but folks who like them really like them. They are based on an old design by Remington and the Model 32. In reality, there are lots of top quality guns out there. Find the one that suits you the best.
Take your time. One of the reasons that Perazzi guns are so expensive is that notwithstanding the fact that they are all hand built in relatively small quantities, when you order one you can get it custom fit to your own frame. That extra bit of service costs money. Quality wise, they are all top notch. I own several Beretta custom shop ASE 90s and a couple of Perazzis. Personally, I think my Berettas are finished out a little better than my Perazzis, but we are talking about small differences. Never owned a K gun, but folks who like them really like them. They are based on an old design by Remington and the Model 32. In reality, there are lots of top quality guns out there. Find the one that suits you the best.
I will PM you an article on MOI which will (hopefully) explain it better than I could in this space. Roughly speaking weight, balance and MOI are different entities. Lighter isn't always easier to swing. i.e. If you take two bar bells that are four feet long and place two 10 lb weights equal distance on the ends of one and on the other you put two 15 lb weights 6" apart in the center of the bar, the heavier one will be easier to swing around its center of gravity than the lighter one. Weight distribution is the key. As a gross overstatement, someone shooting swing thru will by definition have more gun movement than a sustained lead shooter. Generally a swing thru shooter would be better served by a gun that takes less energy to swing and change direction. Again, as a gross overstatement, for sporting clays, the combination of the longest and lightest barrels that you can shoot tend to be the most dynamic for most people---not necessarily "best", but the lowest swing effort. FWIW, Perazzi tends to have the most alternatives of various combinations of lengths and weights of barrels--possibly why many consider them to be very dynamic guns.Grouse Gunner said:
Mixed use guns.
The OP mentioned using one gun for both hunting and for target (sporting clays, skeet, trap) shooting.
In my experience, the optimal parameters my for upland hunting guns are SxS, 28ga - 20ga, 6 1/2 pounds, 28" barrel, balance between the hands, IC/MOD fixed chokes or screw-in chokes. semi-pistol grip. The design goals are quickness, beauty, and lightness of gun and shells.
For me, the optimal parameters for a target gun are O/U, 12ga, 8-9 pounds, 32" barrels, forward balance, screw-in chokes, full pistol grip. The design goals are pointability, recoil absorption, and smoothness.
Just my "druthers", but there is little overlap between my hunting guns and my target guns.
If I had one gun I think I could hunt with AND shoot clays well with it would be my 12ga Beretta 391 although I hate to shoot birds with a 12ga.
The OP mentioned using one gun for both hunting and for target (sporting clays, skeet, trap) shooting.
In my experience, the optimal parameters my for upland hunting guns are SxS, 28ga - 20ga, 6 1/2 pounds, 28" barrel, balance between the hands, IC/MOD fixed chokes or screw-in chokes. semi-pistol grip. The design goals are quickness, beauty, and lightness of gun and shells.
For me, the optimal parameters for a target gun are O/U, 12ga, 8-9 pounds, 32" barrels, forward balance, screw-in chokes, full pistol grip. The design goals are pointability, recoil absorption, and smoothness.
Just my "druthers", but there is little overlap between my hunting guns and my target guns.
If I had one gun I think I could hunt with AND shoot clays well with it would be my 12ga Beretta 391 although I hate to shoot birds with a 12ga.
I think all the guns you are looking at are very good. I have looked at them also and bought a Blaser older one and sold it. The stock dimension was off and didn't work well for me.
The new Blaser is real nice. I shot a few of them.
Perazzi is a another nice gun but I got a Guerini instead because I thought that the Guerini felt better to me and I save some money. I'm happy with my CG.
Krieghoff another nice gun. My shooting buddy has a super scroll and I shoot it. I can't say anything bad about it. It's not for me because of the weight and balance. I went with a Beretta DT10L and it just fit me better.
So at my age and shooting level I buy what I like and fits me the best. Caesar Guerini and my Beretta DT10L works for me.
If Mossberg won all world title I still couldn't shoot that good to appreciate that gun.
So look around and get what you want. In the end you will be happy with your choice.
The new Blaser is real nice. I shot a few of them.
Perazzi is a another nice gun but I got a Guerini instead because I thought that the Guerini felt better to me and I save some money. I'm happy with my CG.
Krieghoff another nice gun. My shooting buddy has a super scroll and I shoot it. I can't say anything bad about it. It's not for me because of the weight and balance. I went with a Beretta DT10L and it just fit me better.
So at my age and shooting level I buy what I like and fits me the best. Caesar Guerini and my Beretta DT10L works for me.
If Mossberg won all world title I still couldn't shoot that good to appreciate that gun.
So look around and get what you want. In the end you will be happy with your choice.
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My earlier post referenced a Gun Digest quote. It was driving me crazy, so I found it and it is as follows: From, The Gun Digest Book of Trap & Skeet Shooting, 5th Edition, 2009; author Rick Sapp. pages 154 and 155: re: Perazzi Shotguns: "...Thee Italian shotguns are not the kind of equipment you buy off the rack at the local firearms emporium. Those who can afford them swear by them, however. There is an old story that goes around every now and then, and which I recently read again in Sporting Clay magazine forum, about why German FITASC competitors shoot Perazzi ratherthan Kriegoff: ""If we buy a Kriegoff,"" they supposedly say, ""and put 60,000 rounds through (normal for them in a year) the gun is shot out and worth next to nothing. The Perazzi by contrast is just being broken in and we can sell it for close to what we paid."" After spending $25,000 or more on a fine shotgun, this could be something to keep in mind......"
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