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I managed to find this tidbit:

"This will be a 28 ga on a true 28 ga frame with English stock, double and single triggers, and 28" barrels and screw chokes."

Confirms what was posted previously I just wasn't sure if it pertained to the 28 as well.

My curiosity on weight hovers on how close to 5.5lbs evah so roughly. I arrived on that figure through researching other makes and type of furniture. Even a dimwit as myself figured out quick that SxS/English/splinter were the building blocks for a lightweight field double. With attention to detail on a scaled frame it shouldn't be a problem on a 28/28 if that was their goal.

I haven't had time, but I hope to raise a cold one maybe later.

ETA: I really don't expect the 28 to come w/splinter forestock. I would consider it a bold move and applaud their moxie. Maybe they'll bring that out in the future on a 30".

I'd hope for the sake of weight it's designed as a no sideplates BL. If they wanted to get fancy I'd much prefer scalloped receiver to sideplate. I see in the ultralight scaled platform an opportunity to add weight w/longer tubes.

Of course I dream of a 28/33 and the only ports I see are the chambers or the tip depending on which end I'm eyeballin'.
 
2fewdaysafield said:
leftieD said:
I've reported that Shooting Sportsman has a favorable article on the Elite Gold triggerplate design in the latest issue. There's also a second favorable article in the same issue, the one on the last 25 years of shotguns. SSM is 25 years old and so is looking back on the best or most important guns of the past 25 years. One of the countries that they talk about is Turkey and how the guns from that country just can't seem to overcome the early bad image. The Kimber and S&W Elite Gold guns are two that are talked about and the author stated that editor of SSM, Bruce Buck, loves the Elite Gold so much, that as the author puts it, he is trying to purchase as many as he can find. Sounds like 2Few and BB could be BFF's?
Don....Is that the January/February issue? Mine came Saturday but I haven't had a chance to open it yet.

As to Bruce Buck.....I suspect he can afford more of these guns than I can. I think I will be pretty darned happy when I have them in 12/16/20/28.
Kris, that's the one. Article on triggerplate guns and 2nd one on 25 years of shotguns are the two to read.
 
The 16 gauge built on a 20 gauge frame is a good thing. Also leads to possible 16/20 gauge combo guns. But for the money why not just buy one of each? :roll:

If I can find a 16/28/English/IC-Mod Dickinson imported in the future I'd have a hard time not buying it! Screw-ins on a SxS is not a deal breaker, but just like guys liking POW stocks vs. English, ST vs. DT or 26 vs. 28, it's just a personal preference.
 
Thanks for the illustrated pic. Very nice piece of work which leads me to ponder how close it is to what is being manufactured now. Looks as a copy would be robust enough, yet I can't help but wonder about lbs of trigger break/how clean/how much pull especially on the DT.

On decoding the Richardinson pedigree what remains from 1.5-2 yrs ago? I understand when the S&W Elite Gold 20 gauge was discontinued and discounted for around a grand that it was a great deal. As they relinquished the reins the 12/20/16 around 1100 simoleons was raved about on various forums.

I'm looking forward to the release of the 28 gauge, not exactly w/bated breath, dependent on the price. As it stands now, apparently w/Cabell'a as the sole distributor(?), the new 12/16/20 is 1600 simoleons.

Your in grade numero uno Uggieville there. I've also seen the side by side pic of a S&W w/Dickinson and you note more similarities both positive and negative. Even from the pic there's no chance in confusing the twain though still claimed that Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I understand some corners must be cut, but has Cabella's replaced S&W in offering a little less gun for a little less price and found themselves in the same type price slot albeit a little less expensive?

Once again I refer to guns being produced now. How close does the round body/triggerplate assembly come to the S&W? I have no conspiracy theories, but I ponder if this is the less popular B-side of the record that doesn't sell for quite as much, but also doesn't carry the same value.

For me and what little research I've afforded 1100 sounded swell though 1600 seems a mite expensive once again depending on quality and what is actually being brought to the table.

Please, don't hesitate to correct any misconceptions or notions run amuck that might have led me to an irrational or wrong conclusion. I'm not looking to poop on the parade, however I'm interested in all opinions/both sides of the coin.
 
Nixterdemus said:
My curiosity on weight hovers on how close to 5.5lbs evah so roughly. I arrived on that figure through researching other makes and type of furniture. Even a dimwit as myself figured out quick that SxS/English/splinter were the building blocks for a lightweight field double. With attention to detail on a scaled frame it shouldn't be a problem on a 28/28 if that was their goal.
Any comments on my part on the weight of the 28/28 would be pure speculation. So please do not take the following as anything other than speculation 'cause that is all it is....with a little calculation and prognostication thrown in.

The 20/28 S&W and Dickinson guns "generally" weighed 6-4 to 6-9, so allowing for a smaller frame and trimmer barrels, I think a 28/28 at 5-8 is within the realm of possibility but I certainly think they would represent the very lightest of their class. My guess is that the 28/28 guns would mostly fall between 5-10 or 5-11 and 6-8 but that their might be a few 5-8s mixed in the order. But again this is all speculation.

Nixterdemus said:
I really don't expect the 28 to come w/splinter forestock. I would consider it a bold move and applaud their moxie.
I'm confident it will, although their splinter foreends are not the thinnest I have ever seen.

Nixterdemus said:
Maybe they'll bring that out in the future on a 30".
Maybe, but I expect it will be years not months before we see that.

Nixterdemus said:
I'd hope for the sake of weight it's designed as a no sideplates BL. If they wanted to get fancy I'd much prefer scalloped receiver to sideplate.
The Model being sold as the Dickinson is the Akus SBE which is a scalloped boxlock with ejectors. Akus does make a sideplate gun as well as a true sidelock, but Cabela's does not currently carry either model.

Nixterdemus said:
On decoding the Richardinson pedigree what remains from 1.5-2 yrs ago? I understand when the S&W Elite Gold 20 gauge was discontinued and discounted for around a grand that it was a great deal. As they relinquished the reins the 12/20/16 around 1100 simoleons was raved about on various forums.
The S&W Elite Gold was liquidated by CDNN for $1190. The first Dickinsons sold by Cabela's were priced at $1299 Though from time to time they could be found at some stores for as low as $999, $1199 and $1259. Since the newest order came in (a large order) they have been priced all over the place from $1259 to $1699. Most of the 12 and 20s I see right now are $1259-$1399. Judicious negotiating will generally save $100 or so off the price shown on Cabela's Gun Library.

Nixterdemus said:
As it stands now, apparently w/Cabell'a as the sole distributor(?), the new 12/16/20 is 1600 simoleons.
Westley and Richards is bring out the same gun in 2013 in 12 and 20 gauge....in a horrid configuration (pistol grip) and at a much higher price (MSRP $2499)

You mentioned the Grade I Ugartecheas.....

I believe the Grade 1 Ugartechea is now up to $1699. It appears that Cabela's is trying to offer these guns as roughly a $300-$400 less expensive gun.

Nixterdemus said:
Once again I refer to guns being produced now. How close does the round body/triggerplate assembly come to the S&W?
It is the same gun made in the same factory. Owning both the S&W and a Dickinson (with another on the way) I can assure you of that. Is Akus building the Dickinson guns to a "price point" specified by Cabela's and reaching that "price point" by ordering their workers to spend a little less time on each gun? I don't know. But I would certainly not call it out of the realm of possibility.

Nixterdemus said:
For me and what little research I've afforded 1100 sounded swell though 1600 seems a mite expensive once again depending on quality and what is actually bringing brought to the table.
Anything under $1200 is a fabulous deal on these guns....getting close to theft. The "right price" in my opinion is $1200 to $1400. Although I would expect to pay a bit of a price premium for 16 and 28. I expect the 28 will start around $1600-$1700 but will in short order fall to around $1400-$1500. And as always a bit of judicious haggling should yield a little more savings. As to quality, I am confident it can hold it's own against any lightweight SxS that sells for less than $2500. Though like any manufacturer their will be some individual examples that are "problem children".
 
Nixterdemus said:
Thanks for the illustrated pic. Very nice piece of work which leads me to ponder how close it is to what is being manufactured now. Looks as a copy would be robust enough, yet I can't help but wonder about lbs of trigger break/how clean/how much pull especially on the DT.

On decoding the Richardinson pedigree what remains from 1.5-2 yrs ago? I understand when the S&W Elite Gold 20 gauge was discontinued and discounted for around a grand that it was a great deal. As they relinquished the reins the 12/20/16 around 1100 simoleons was raved about on various forums.

I'm looking forward to the release of the 28 gauge, not exactly w/bated breath, dependent on the price. As it stands now, apparently w/Cabell'a as the sole distributor(?), the new 12/16/20 is 1600 simoleons.

Your in grade numero uno Uggieville there. I've also seen the side by side pic of a S&W w/Dickinson and you note more similarities both positive and negative. Even from the pic there's no chance in confusing the twain though still claimed that Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I understand some corners must be cut, but has Cabella's replaced S&W in offering a little less gun for a little less price and found themselves in the same type price slot albeit a little less expensive?

Once again I refer to guns being produced now. How close does the round body/triggerplate assembly come to the S&W? I have no conspiracy theories, but I ponder if this is the less popular B-side of the record that doesn't sell for quite as much, but also doesn't carry the same value.

For me and what little research I've afforded 1100 sounded swell though 1600 seems a mite expensive once again depending on quality and what is actually being brought to the table.

Please, don't hesitate to correct any misconceptions or notions run amuck that might have led me to an irrational or wrong conclusion. I'm not looking to poop on the parade, however I'm interested in all opinions/both sides of the coin.
As far as I know no owner of both a Dickinson and a S&W has ventured into the gun disassembly realm to compare the guts. However, the visible pieces are all exactly the same in shape and quality. The wood used on the Dickinson stocks does appear to be plainer on average. I don't believe the guns differ in metal fit/finish.

But Dickinson guns are available in 16 gauge which S&W never imported.

Dickinson price has crept up with the latest round of guns appearing on Cabela's website. Maybe they got a better deal on guns imported, but not sold when they first offered them. or maybe the guns are costing more since the Fed is doing quantitative easing of the US$. (Read devaluing it) Early guns for the most part did not have screw in chokes and so might also be why prices are higher today. But true to Cabela's marketing schemes of selling their products, you need to wait for a sale to purchase. A second way of getting a discount is to just ask for one. I asked on my 20 gauge and was granted a $100 off without a blink of an eye. The third and more personal method of getting a better price is to do what I have done and obtain a Cabela's Club Visa card and charge everything under the sun onto it. Build up club points (dollars) and use them towards your gun purchase. Buy the gun on the same Visa card and generate more club points for the next gun purchase too. :lol: :lol: It is up to you to police yourself and not run up the card faster than the national debt. :roll: {hs#
 
Thanks guys. I knew ya'll would be forthright w/insight to my queries. I get all fired up on something then I start pickin' it apart. I hear ya on waiting for a sale. I have a card w/whopping $14 and change waiting to jump on the next purchase. The bad thing for me is the Cabella's here is stuck in the NW tip and I'm lounging in the central area, so I'm doomed to pay state sales tax and drive or have it shipped to my ffl plus his small fee.

In new purchase some think the uggie the best buy, so I use it as a marker of sorts. Likewise I use Buds prices on CZ Bobwhite to temper the modest end. 12/26"-$604--12/28-610 . The 16/28/410/26 are 836 representing about a 40% increase over the lowly 12ga.

That's quite the hike and has me reconsidering the CZ upland 2 3/4, 12/28, at a claimed 6lb, same posted on the 26", for $648 whilst shooting cheap low brass. Even with the barrels stacked 90* out of wack and missing a trigger to boot. I am curious as to the real average weight.

Enough of the different manufacture drift. I expect to pay a premium for a subgauge though I don't expect to pay through the nose. Maybe I'm not being realistic, yet the longer I wait the more I have to spend. At least I have more time if not money. If I wait long enough the prices will continue to rise, I won't be able to afford one & I'll not have to concern myself w/purchase anymore.

I might be quite mad as I've made several offers w/no takers. They appear to be a bit more proud of their wares than I and figure a more affluent lad will come down the pike and snatch it up I suppose.
I'm sure I'll have to wait a while until the rush has subsided on the 28 to achieve a favorable price.

Howevah, w/help I'm learning a bit along the way.
 
I looked yesterday, I paid $1190 from CDNN for my S&W 20b. i received the 12B as a gift, (but actually paid for it) and it was $1250 with tax but was listed as used although it looked like new and bought the 16b for $1504.99 with tax.

The 16b was (on sale) for $1399 down from $1599. That is why I bought it.
I think they are quality guns but wouldn't pay much more than that for them.

I can see why the S&W failed, to me they aren't $2300 guns and they are somewhat on the heavy side. (at least my 16b is.)

Even though I seem to shoot it well, I think I will probably hunt with the 12b more than my 16b just because of the weight. I also like the oil finish on the 12b rather than the glossy finish on the 16b.

I fired some 2.75" Heavi-Shot at 1500 fps at roosters on ground that requires non-tox. While they are far from pleasant to shoot, they weren't that bad. I think heavy 3" at geese might be brutal.
 
I've been looking for a 28 gauge for a couple of years. Being left handed makes finding a gun a bit more difficult. I found one, but the price is a tiny bit more than I want to spend:

http://www.loch-burnfirearms.com/detail ... n=shotguns

So now that I let that cat out of the bag, I'm sure that one will sell in 5 minutes! So be it, but a 28 gauge Dickinson will do just nicely after I have the stock bend. Plus I can save a few $'s even with a stock bending. :lol:
 
Nixterdemus said:
In new purchase some think the uggie the best buy, so I use it as a marker of sorts.
And a good way of looking at it IMO. The Ugartechea Grade I is a good gun at an acceptable price. It was very difficult for me to wait to see if the Dickinson guns would come out in 16 gauge instead of just breaking down and buying one of the Ugartecheas. I waited because I feel the quality is at least equal, I far prefer the looks of the Dickinson and for a hunting gun I really like the round action. Somehow makes the gun feel lighter to me although that is probably all in my head.

Nixterdemus said:
Likewise I use Buds prices on CZ Bobwhite to temper the modest end. 12/26"-$604--12/28-610 . The 16/28/410/26 are 836 representing about a 40% increase over the lowly 12ga.
If you are ever considering a Huglu, you need to come here first and ask us to help you look for one. Just a few months ago the Bobwhites were all available in 28, 20 and 16--26" for $575 plus shipping from James Wayne Firearms. If there is a "deal" to be had on a Huglu--especially a subgauge--we'll find it for you. For some reason the prices of the Bobwhites seem to fluctuate all over the place. But as you say, Bud's is usually a good place to start....then come ask here and we'll see if we can help you do better.

Nixterdemus said:
I expect to pay a premium for a subgauge though I don't expect to pay through the nose.
Agreed. For a quality gun like a Dickinson or an Ugartechea, I don't mind an extra $150 or so for a 16 or 28. Much more than that though and I start to get annoyed.

As an aside on the Dickinson's.....As I understand it, Cabela's has just taken delivery of something on the order of 800-1,000 Dickinson guns in 12/16/20. And they are supposed to have an additional order (probably 200) 28 gauges coming. In short order they are likely to have a LOT of Dickinsons. I expect that by March there will be some widespread discounting of these guns and I expect that with some effort and quite a few phone calls you'll be able to get them in most any gauge for under $1300. Of course that is only my crystal ball talking and I can't claim it has a 100% accuracy rate. :oops:

Nixterdemus said:
I might be quite mad as I've made several offers w/no takers.
If you have been making offers on the S&W guns, you have chosen the wrong time to do it. Since CDNN sold the last of their S&W Elite Golds at $1190, the price of these guns has done nothing but climb. The last time I checked, $1500 seemed to be about the going rate for them. But if you have your heart set on one call James Wayne Firearms in Tx....As little as 4-6 weeks ago they had a few that were NIB and IIRC the price was better than the norm.
 
Gracias Senor Dos Pocos! I've made offers on whatnot at various sites. The S&W wasn't one, but I'll keep James Wayne Firearms in mind as I do a little snooping around. Love to window shop and I'll remember the Hug Hut for a killer deal as well.

Buds doesn't always have the best deal though they're close more times than not for your bare bones Mail order jerint.

I enjoy the looks of the round body as well and resale value isn't always the bottom line. You're probably right about March. I was figuring a little later, but whenevah I'm forced to bide my time. Who knows, I might come up on a deal and that'll leave me plenty of time for financial recovery and to reload the wallet.
 
One more thing to keep in mind regarding price: Smith and Wesson initially had the "Heirloom Warranty", that purported to guarantee the gun out past 3(?) generations. That went the way of the dodo when they dropped the gun, but they were giving refunds for those that wanted them, then, subsequenty, warranty service by a shop in Texas. Cabelas is making no warranty claims, even on the new order, so far as I know, however, Webley and Scott is offering a 3 year warranty on their version, but their prices are comparable to what S & W's were.
 
EXCELLENT point Yornoc!!!!!!

The Dickinson guns come with no US warranty support.

From my perspective as a buyer that does not worry me. I'm not going to use one of the Dickinsons for high-volume clayshooting. It will be a lot if my new Dickinson 16 fires 3,000 shells per year. This gun is a hunting gun....pure and simple. But you have to shoot it a bunch to "keep the eye in". So maybe 3,000 rounds per year. The other 2,000 get divided up amongst "other guns".

The way I look at is this.....With the Webley and Scott having an MSRP of $2,500 (with a 3 year warranty) and the Dickinson having a street price of about $1,400, I am saving about $1,100 by not having a warranty on the Dickinson. $1,100 will pay for a lot more repairs than I am ever likely to need from one of these guns at the volume I shoot.
 
Now we need to scare up a smith with some knowledge on triggerplate actions, just in case (in the unlikely event) we need some widget or other replaced. :wink: The action seems to be clean and accessable (thanks for posting SSM's photo, mountaindave), elegant, really; I can't imagine it'd be difficult for a skilled gunsmith to work on. I'd be willing to bet the internal parts in all three versions of the Akus SBE are the same.
 
Guys,
Looking at the picture of the Dickinson/S&W action, There are no unknown or new parts in the action. The triggers act on the sears, which release the hammers and fire the gun. The layout of the parts is different from your normal boxlock, but there is nothing there that would be unfamiliar to a good gunsmith. It would be standard trigger work.

The problem would likely be the availability of parts. S&W likely had a supply of parts they sent to their repair smith (maybe). Cabela's as the retailer of the Dickinson probably is not in the repair loop. The importer would be the guy to query about spares and repairs. Maybe Cabela's knows the answer on this one, but pretty danged sure there is no warranty. At the least, it would help the sale of these guns if parts were available.
 
I imply that the Dickinson has less value than the S&W for various reasons at hand. That's not necessarily a conclusion holding the Dickinson in bad light. I have to consider warranty, availability of parts, QC and price point manufacturing.

While prices are negotiable as it stands right now some Cabellas are asking 1600 bucks for a 12/16/20. I have a couple of Turkish Yildiz O/U CNC machined out of AL alloy that are light and cost 400 bucks. Now, I'm not directly comparing the mechanics of the round body triggerplate, but again I can buy a Y SxS 12/28 6.1lbs for $486.

So, betwixt that modest Turkish piece and a sub 2 grand uggie SxS, that has name recognition/parts availability/high resale/cachet, I'm attempting to look at every angle long and hard. As a casual shooter I want to know what a $1000 SxS has over the Yildiz and likewise looking for 500 extra dollars of value in a 1500 buck piece over the grand. It doesn't have to be these brands. If I owned a Huglu I would want to compare it against whatever model I was considering.

I like the looks even though I've yet to see a 28 gauge. I have no reason to suspect that the Dickinson is any thing less than being described. I have every reason to believe my issue in price lies firmly within the Cabella's margin.

Once again, nothing new.
 
Riflemeister said:
Guys,
Looking at the picture of the Dickinson/S&W action, There are no unknown or new parts in the action. The triggers act on the sears, which release the hammers and fire the gun. The layout of the parts is different from your normal boxlock, but there is nothing there that would be unfamiliar to a good gunsmith. It would be standard trigger work.

The problem would likely be the availability of parts. S&W likely had a supply of parts they sent to their repair smith (maybe). Cabela's as the retailer of the Dickinson probably is not in the repair loop. The importer would be the guy to query about spares and repairs. Maybe Cabela's knows the answer on this one, but pretty danged sure there is no warranty. At the least, it would help the sale of these guns if parts were available.
Exactly right Riflemeister! The parts availability is the big issue. I've been quietly researching this and thanks to PMs have found the smith that was the S&W smith. S&W is no longer getting parts so while he is happy to work on these guns, he has no stock of parts.

Seeing Webley & Scott offering these guns is a good sign. They are offering a 3 year warranty at a US warranty center. I assume (my bad) that this means they have a parts supply. Since the Webley and Scott warranty provider is (it would appear) an independent contractor I *think* he is a repair point that will have parts on hand so that in the event of a broken part it doesn't have to be manufactured from scratch.

All in all though, I think these are high quality hunting guns and I don't see typical hunting shooting volume being likely to cause repair issues.
 
Most Spanish guns don't come supported with available spare parts either. These guns are all hand made and so parts bins parts would need to be fitted anyways. Doesn't stop people from buying them. Only bang and clank guns are made with such loose tolerances that parts swap off the shelf. :lol: :lol:
 
Cabella's is starting to offer some slightly used Dickinsons of late. They have a 12 SxS- Price:Was $1,399.99 Now $1,099.98
Barrel 26" with solid rib
Choke Fixed - Improved Mod / Improved Cyl
Weight 6 lbs 6 ozs
Trigger Double non-selective
Stock Checkered English style grip on oil finished walnut
Stock Dimensions 15 1/8" LOP
Fore End Checkered oil finished walnut splinter

Metal Condition Very good - some lite freckeling
Wood Condition Excellent - some very lite scratches

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Dickinso ... =dickinson
 
Nixterdemus said:
Cabella's is starting to offer some slightly used Dickinsons of late. They have a 12 SxS- Price:Was $1,399.99 Now $1,099.98
Barrel 26" with solid rib
Choke Fixed - Improved Mod / Improved Cyl
Weight 6 lbs 6 ozs
Trigger Double non-selective
Stock Checkered English style grip on oil finished walnut
Stock Dimensions 15 1/8" LOP
Fore End Checkered oil finished walnut splinter

Metal Condition Very good - some lite freckeling
Wood Condition Excellent - some very lite scratches

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Dickinso ... =dickinson
That double trigger- non selective proves my point on single trigger versus double trigger. More parts, no advantage. I'd kinda like to see a selective double trigger, although you probably couldn't get all the parts required to fit on the trigger plate.
 
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