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rayrraff

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
First, I'd like to say that I reload for fun not to save money. Second, I saw a post somewhere that got me thinking about how much it really costs to reload a box of .410 shells.

Flats of AA .410s can be had for about $100 with some frequency and $80 for 3 cases if the rebate is active. Reloading a box of .410 shells can be done for ~3.50 if you really try to find good deals on the components. At first glance, reloading seems like a great deal.

However, most people don't factor the cost of their hulls into the formula or the opportunity cost they are giving up by not selling their hulls. AA HS hulls (AKA Red Gold) can be sold for .20 a pop on gunbroker or even this website. Heck, even the boxes have value but I won't take that into account here. That means for every case of new ammo you shoot, you'll get $50 back. That comes out to $3/box for new shells or $5/box if there is no rebate.

That means, if you shoot less than 40 rounds of skeet/year with .410, you will save no money. For every additional round you shoot after the first 40, you will save $1.50/round. After everything is said and done, the benefits are barely better than 12/20 reloading.

The other question I have is, why the heck doesn't Winchester sell their primed hulls like cheddite. Brand new primed winchester hulls could probably sell .25 a piece without a problem. At $62.50/250 hulls, I guarantee winchester would make more money on hulls than a case of their ammo. They are practically giving away money to their customers by not selling these empty hulls.

Lastly (I might be preaching to the choir here), NEVER BUY ANYTHING BUT AA/REM .410 AMMO. Federal/Rio prices barely beat out AA's and you can't sell their hulls.
 
rayrraff said:
Flats of AA .410s can be had for about $100 with some frequency and $80 for 3 cases if the rebate is active.
Where can you get a flat of reloadable AA .410s for $100 after rebate? How frequently does Winchester put up a rebate for the AA .410s?
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
I was going to post a picture of Midway and I just realized that they have clearance on AA's right now. I just got 4 cases of .410 8 1/2 1300fps shipped to my door for $85/case.

Thanks for making me look {hs#

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/290035 ... uctFinding

The rebate just ended so you'll have to wait until next year. $100/case is pretty standard.
 
rayrraff said:
After everything is said and done, the benefits are barely better than 12/20 reloading.
I know it seems that way, but really, it's not. Let's take a look.

Granted, I was lucky enough to score a whole bunch of flats for $100 before the rebate, and $80 after rebate, but remember, you should get at least 8 reloads out of the AA HS's (or so I am told).

Calculating the hull cost by buying expensive factories is a bit tricky. I "think" I got it right :

Image


Plugging that into the calculator, you are still reloading for less than half-price :

Image


For pre-primed hulls, and while not AA HS's, BPI recently had a sale on these :

Image


Unlike 12 and 20, the trick to reloading .410 is to try not to "think about" what it's costing you. ;)
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
I just bought a .410 shells for $8.50 a box. I'm going to turn around and sell the once fired hulls for $.20 each for a total of $5. $8.50 - $5 for the hulls = $3.50.

Also, I got some of those Cheddite Hulls on their way now. Do you have a favorite load for them?
 
rayrraff said:
Also, I got some of those Cheddite Hulls on their way now. Do you have a favorite load for them?
Well, - that's a whole nother story for a whole nother day. I bought some Gualandi wads that BPI had a killer deal on, but they were the wrong wads, - they are too long. So I've been trimming the tops of the pedals off of them :

Image


They "sorta" crimp Ok I suppose (for an inexpensive hull) :

Image


But performance wasn't all that hot. But then again, I was loading that goofy 300MP which I was having performance issues with in the AA HS's, and so it seemed to be amplified in these hulls. I never went back and re-retested them once I switched to H110. I also tried loading them with the red Claybuster HS hulls that I use for the AA HS's, and had limited, "usable" performance. Just don't don't expect miracles with these hulls, that's all.

They seem like they need a hotter/faster burning powder. Or at least more of the slower H110 than they call for.
 
You forgot to add in cost of driving around to find flats of AASC410 and the time periods of not having any flats available.

Much easier to stock enough flats to get through the droughts and buy when their on sale if you can. The last flat I bought last may was $100. And they will reload eight times so thats 2250 firings. I am not shooting leagues so I figure I need a one flat stash while i reload from another flat. I do the same with the 3" Super X HS ammo. From my 28ga and 20ga I settled on three flats each to stash while reloading the other flat.
 
rayrraff,

Thanks for the link!

I ordered two flats of them late last night myself. My shipping must be a tad higher? With a $.27 round-up they were $175.

That is a good price!

BP
 
aBrowningfan said:
rayrraff said:
Flats of AA .410s can be had for about $100 with some frequency and $80 for 3 cases if the rebate is active.
Where can you get a flat of reloadable AA .410s for $100 after rebate?
You can easily find them for under $100 without rebate many places. Grafs wants $95. Gamaliel wants $92. MidwayUSA currently has flats of 410 #8 Sporting loads on sale for $79.87

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/290017 ... uctFinding

aBrowningfan said:
How frequently does Winchester put up a rebate for the AA .410s?
For the last few years it's been once per year for up to 5 flats.
 
The last time I stocked up on 410 components, I bought them delivered for: shot $36/bag, powder $130/8#, wads $90/5000, primers $30/1000, and hulls amortized to .03/load (5 reloads per at 15 cents per hull if I sold them outright).

So using my own cost calculator, I used to reload 410 for $4.05/box. At that time, the best price I could find on sale new was $99/flat delivered, or $9.90/box. If I sold the hulls at 15 cents each, which is a more realistic price for bulk, I net back $3.75/box, or now $6.15/box to shoot factory fresh 410. So I was saving $2.10/box and could reload about 15 boxes per hour -- so was "making" about $30/hour for my time. Not too shabby since I enjoy the reloading process. (FWIW, my cut-off rate for reloading efficiency is $20/hour. After that I'd rather watch TV, read or post on internet forums ;) )

But now, if you find 410 *AAHS* on sale at $85/flat SHIPPED like the current Midwest sale -- which is tough to find at any given moment -- and if you sell the empty hulls for 15cents each, you get the costs down to around $4.75/box. Now factor in reloading at current component prices shipped, and my costs go up to about $4.75/box, so clearly reloading makes no sense.

And that's why I'll be giving it up as soon as I use up all the components I have in reserve... But for right now, I have enough powder, primers and shot to reload about 10 flats of 410, 10 flats of 28, 10 flats of 20 and 30 flats of 12. Fortunately I can get wads pretty easily. But when this is all used up, I'm done.
 
JacksBack said:
But now, if you find 410 *AAHS* on sale at $85/flat SHIPPED like the current Midwest sale -- which is tough to find at any given moment -- and if you sell the empty hulls for 15cents each, you get the costs down to around $4.75/box. Now factor in reloading at current component prices shipped, and my costs go up to about $4.75/box, so clearly reloading makes no sense.
The current MidwayUSA sale is more of an outlier - they are doing some sort of inventory clearance. I really don't think you will see similar pricing for a long time to come. $100/flat after rebate is more realistic, IMO.
 
I reload 410-shells for about,$2.50 a box the last time,I used the cost calculator,the 28ga were a little
more maybe .50,more?I also bought 2000,ea once fired 410 sts shells and 28ga Federal shells for .05 ea,from a shooter,so maybe it will take me while, to be at the no cost savings level?
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
creeker said:
I reload 410-shells for about,$2.50 a box the last time,I used the cost calculator,the 28ga were a little
more maybe .50,more?I also bought 2000,ea once fired 410 sts shells and 28ga Federal shells for .05 ea,from a shooter,so maybe it will take me while, to be at the no cost savings level?
I wish I was lucky enough to stock up on supplies that would allow me to reload at that cost. Reloading for $2.50 just isn't possible with the supplies market the way it is today.

Also, while you did only pay .05 ea for the once fired hulls nobody is stopping you from selling them right now. You are forgoing the profit that you could make by selling the 2000 shells for .15-.20 cents a piece. Selling the shells alone will get you $200-300 profit. Economic cost of reloading those shells is still .15-.20 regardless of what you paid for it.
 
aBrowningfan said:
JacksBack said:
But now, if you find 410 *AAHS* on sale at $85/flat SHIPPED like the current Midwest sale -- which is tough to find at any given moment -- and if you sell the empty hulls for 15cents each, you get the costs down to around $4.75/box. Now factor in reloading at current component prices shipped, and my costs go up to about $4.75/box, so clearly reloading makes no sense.
The current MidwayUSA sale is more of an outlier - they are doing some sort of inventory clearance. I really don't think you will see similar pricing for a long time to come. $100/flat after rebate is more realistic, IMO.
You need to shop around more. If you are paying more than $100 before rebate you are paying too much.
 
JacksBack said:
(FWIW, my cut-off rate for reloading efficiency is $20/hour. After that I'd rather watch TV, read or post on internet forums ;) )
I charge $285 an hour for my real "work". My cut-off rate for reloading efficiency is $-0- per hour. I'd rather reload or tie fishing flies that I don't need (at 65 I already have enough flies for about 8 or 10 more lifetimes - but still not "enough") so I tied a few more this evening. I also just finished reloading a batch 1,650 9mm Luger loads about an hour ago. Much more fun than TV.

Come to think of it I only have a couple of flats of .410 so I may have to load a few more this week. I did load a few 24 gauge this evening - yes, I'm a bit odd but have always considered that a plus not a minus.
 
FlyChamps,

I like your style!

I think I need a 24 ga too. I got a lot of odd ball rifles, just one odd ball shotgun would be nice.

I do sit and watch TV with my wife and dog on occason, like right now. But......

BP
 
to save money you have to buy in bulk. more the better. buying 1 bag of shot saves no money. get a group buy going and buy at least 200lbs. dont buy a sleeve of primers buy a case. dont buy a bag of wads buy a case. powder by the lb isnt worth it.
 
When everyone figures out that reloading .410 won't save money, there will be no market for the used hulls, then we will be back to reloading saves money again.
 
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