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Discussion starter · #22 ·
Gentlemen:

I see in the responses that Caesar Guerini guns have been mentioned comparatively with respect to CSMC guns. I've owned two Caesar Guerini guns. Both were the earlier, case-hardened Magnus Sporting guns, one in 20 and one in 28. They are fine guns. They shot just fine and I had no issues. But as far as craftsmanship and quality.....and a classic piece of form and function.....I see no comparison between CG guns and the CSMC A10s I have handled.

A typical year for an A10, should I decide to buy one, will likely see about 2000 rounds shot under mild field conditions and on the local skeet field. I probably should have included that detail in my OP.

For the record.............thank you all for taking the time to offer your input.
My research continues.

Best............R10D.
 
R10D said:
I see in the responses that Caesar Guerini guns have been mentioned comparatively with respect to CSMC guns. I've owned two Caesar Guerini guns. Both were the earlier, case-hardened Magnus Sporting guns, one in 20 and one in 28. They are fine guns. They shot just fine and I had no issues. But as far as craftsmanship and quality.....and a classic piece of form and function.....I see no comparison between CG guns and the CSMC A10s I have handled.
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The Magnus is a more durable gun, with chrome-lined barrels, deeper bluing, a lifetime warranty, gold inlays, superior customer service, and has a MRSP of $4600, and no screws or pins on the sideplates. It is a far better gun backed by a far stronger company, and sells for $6000 - $8000 less.
 
Had my A10 Deluxe five years and shoot sporting with it virtually every weekend. I'm sure I've put around 30k+ rounds through it. Had ejector problems which CSMC rectified promptly to my satisfaction. I've had no more issues with it than I had with the MX2000 that preceded it. I haven't had to replace $75 leaf springs every year! winmod21
 
timberflint said:
twohigh said:
Those few negative comments that I did read (including Mr. Wolf's) are very short on specifics.
.
Sir,

I PMed you a few specifics.

Tim Wolf
Thanks for your PM. Sorry to hear of all your problems. Sounds like you got a lemon. My experience with my M21 O/U couldn't be more opposite. I'm very pleased with the build quality, appearance and function of mine. I do feel your pain though and understand your frustration. If I had those problems I would have made the trip to New Britain CT and had a real face to face discussion and if I ever have any similar problems down the road with mine, that is exactly what I will do.
 
Randy,

To each their own. I am not impressed with gold-inlays, case-"colored" receivers, fake sidelocks (sideplates on a boxlock action, which is why it has no screws), or knobby schnabel forends and I find a lot of the turkish walnut stocks (dare I say it) ugly. My CSMC Model 21 O/U with a nicely polished, blued, plain, receiver and exhibition grade black feather crotch walnut with a perfect, glass-like oil finish is perfect to my eye. A fellow shooter admired it and said it has a nice understated elegance about it. It shoots where I'm looking, has gone bang every time I pulled the trigger, and it handles like a sports car. Like I said; to each their own. If someone can't afford a real sidelock action and a shotgun tastefully done and made here in America, then I guess that CG is a decent facsimile.

For my tastes, this is worth the extra $5K, if one can afford it.

http://www.connecticutshotgun.com/product/12279/
 
For a gun with comparatively tiny sales, there isn't much reason to draw a deeper road map.

He had it tubed for skeet and experienced a great deal of difficulty getting the trigger to work with the .410 tubes despite several trips back to Briley. He has also had some reliability issues that required sending the gun back to CSMC and, by the sound of it, the service he got was not anything to write home about.
My experience with CSMC has been dismal. Had an A-10 (dumped for a $3000 loss) and unfortunately still have a Model 21. Will never buy another firearm from them. Some folks seem to be delighted with their guns but has not been my experience.
My A-10 had numerous small problems within a couple flats of shells. It took 2 1/2 years to receive the A-10 after ordering and by then was having numerous problems with my Custom Ordered Model 21. Seeing the writing on the wall shed my self of the A-10 while it was till in somewhat new condition. But still took more than 2 years to find a buyer even with the discounted price.
How many red flags need to be raised?
 
I have looked at quite a few of their offerings, and on the surface they seem to be beautiful and well built guns. However, I have also talked with a number of owners, and I think the number of issues mentioned far exceeds what I would consider acceptable at that level of pricing. What I find most interesting is the owners' attitudes. They start out telling you how great the gun is, and how much they love it, etc., etc., but then as they go on the start relating issues, and they give the manufacturer a total bye on everything. I find the same attitude exists with many, many gun owners at all levels of pricing.
 
twohigh said:
Sounds like you got a lemon. .
The gun itself has had issues but the continued damage and poor repairs done by CSMC gunsmiths is totally appalling. Remember these guns start at $15,000 base and these are repairs being done by the manufacturer.

Truly unbelievable to me that they would return a gun to a customer (repeat customer in my case) with such blatantly obvious poor gun smithing.

I enjoy shooting the SxS shoots. I have personal knowledge of 5 other custom ordered CSMC Model 21s. All have had problems and no one has been happy with the repairs preformed by CSMC. One has been returned more than 10 times.

Ask around about barrel regulations on their .410 Model 21s SxSs.

Also ask CSMC if they will buy for resale or consign a gun they originally manufactured?

Tells me how they feel about the quality of their own shotguns.
 
>>"Also ask CSMC if they will buy for resale or consign a gun they originally manufactured?"<<

Mr. Wolf, I believe your story and I would have been driven totally crazy, if I were you. I know I would have had a serious face-to-face with them long before it got to 14 returns (but I also live only a couple hours away). All can say, is my experience has been very different and I hope it continues to be. I bought my CSMC M21 O/U knowing full well that it was not a Winchester design (it's a copy of a B Rizzini action, but one that is proven and used on their Inverness shotguns). Since I did not have any first hand experience with CSMC shotguns I was not going to buy one without putting my hands on it first. I had no intention of competing with it or putting a high volume of rounds thru it. I shoot my Brownings for that. I wanted something that was a little different and that met my ideal of shotgun aesthetics and when I picked it up and it fit me well and balanced perfectly, I was pleased enough to purchase.

They must take some of their guns back on trade or for resale as they usually have several shown on their inventory whenever I've looked including the link I posted above.

Based on my experience and what I see and feel when I pick up and shoot my CSMC, I recommend them. If I had your experience, I would feel and do just as you are doing. Did I get lucky? Did you get unlucky (or very unlucky)? I don't know. Most of what I have read about their A-10 is that some people had some issues with them early on (it was a new design) and that they were fixed to the customers satisfaction (including Mr. Buck's opinion which he related in both in his blog and his book). They seem to get repeat business and I have read many glowing testimonials for their shotguns. I do agree that for what they charge, there should be very few, if any, problems like you have/had. Hope they finally get it right for you.
 
Thank you "twohigh" for hoping they will get it right. But I am realistic that it will not happen. They have already had 14 opportunities.

As noted some folks seem to be delighted with CSMC guns as you have been. And best to you and them.

I also try to support USA companies whenever possible. And have done so with CSMC to the tune of nearly $30,000.

For me it is a full 2 day drive each direction for a face to face with no guarantees.

Your post does provide the best advise for anyone buying one of their guns, "I had no intention of competing with it or putting a high volume of rounds thru it."

They are beautiful guns, but..........
 
timberflint said:
But I am realistic that it will not happen. They have already had 14 opportunities.
And that means a mind-boggling 27 (waiting on 28) UPS shipments. To err is human, most readily accept that, and giving a manufacturer an opportunity to fix things is only reasonable. But.

After a couple of bites at the apple, it is obvious that you've been ripped off. A "face-to-face" meeting is ill-advised and might sound good to those with excess testosterone, but there is nothing to tell anyone that they don't already know.

A reputable company would refund your purchase price.

We have a lemon law in Illinois: In order to be covered by the Illinois Lemon Law, a vehicle must:

have a nonconformity that both substantially impairs the use , market value or safety of the vehicle and is not repairable by the dealer or manufacturer in at least four attempts for the same repair, or

be out of service for a total of 30 or more business days.


Of course, that is for an automobile. Nevertheless, if a gun manufacturer displays the level of incompetence that fully triples lemon law type protections: it sounds like it has gone from flagrant incompetence to con-job.

Even Davidson's offers replacement on cheap guns: https://www.galleryofguns.com/about/terms.aspx .

Problem guns happen. When it exceeds the threshold of reasonableness, reputable companies refund your money. Ruger cut me a check on a problem gun they couldn't fix after several months without hesitation.

Apparently, Connecticut Shotgun is not nearly as reputable as Ruger. It is no test of a company when things go right: the true test is how they respond when it does not.
 
As is human nature and the internet, people who are unhappy for what ever reason feel the need to tell the world!
There are thousands of satisfied customers who are silent about their satisfaction with CSMC!
The biggest complaint is the wait time. Since they offer a big discount when a new model is introduced, I'm OK if it takes longer than advertised due to the significant savings.
 
It is one thing when someone joins a forum under a fake name and rants about how Remchester killed their pet hamster. It is quite another when someone, answering a question about a company, is not ashamed to both use their real name and supply documentation of their experience.

If there has been problems with a company, would you rather hear it now . . . or after you emptied your checking account?
 
RandyWakeman said:
R10D said:
Any personal experience out there with CSMC shotguns, specifically the A-10?
When they were announced, in 2009, and touted the SHOT Show, they created a lot of buzz. Good-looking guns, sidelocks of course, and generally good components like Trulock choke tubes. And, Bruce covered it well:

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The $3995 intro went to 8K, 9K for the deluxe, $9500 for a deluxe 20 gauge . . . and that was years ago. Here is a used 20 gauge: http://www.connecticutshotgun.com/produ ... 20ga-30-3/ . Yes, $20,450.

Then, there is "The Hammer" . . . http://www.connecticutshotgun.com/produ ... he-hammer/ used, at $13,500.

Sure, they have pretty to look at guns. But, buyer beware. They aren't heavy-duty guns, they are not serious competition guns, and they are not guns to shoot a lot. Their reputation is most charitably characterized as uneven.
Thanks Randy and all you other bloggers, You just saved me $14K. I was sort of lusting for the A-10 with the 2 English setters on the side plates. But nothing pisses me off more than spending big bucks and then having to go through the hassle of constantly dealing with these types of issues. It just kills my interest and desire to use the gun. I'll stick with my Guerinis. I never had a problem with them and the wood on many of them is every bit as nice as those on CSMC's at 1/3 to 1/2 the price. IMO they are the best bang for the buck as far as cosmetics and function in one package
 
I have an RBL 20 SXS and have shot about 10 boxes of clays and dove loads. It has performed flawlessly for me.
"If" I had the coin and could find one, I'd add a 16 ga.
But I don't have the coin right now.
 
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