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There are LOTS of threads on Phil Kiner's Forum
https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewforum.php?f=240

and he is most gracious about communicating with shooters who have questions

He is not a fan of dinky dots, but for me the dinky-er the better as it is less distracting ie. contributing to dominance shifting. There are times when I realize all that I am seeing is the blur of the dot, but if I shut my eyes for a moment I can usually shift back to my right eye

Image


This is certainly not a modern problem

Gilbert's Two Eyed Sight in Greener's The Gun and Its Development, 1888
https://books.google.com/books?id=LAsAA ... =PA531&lpg

"The Monopeian" in Greener's, The Gun, 1907
https://books.google.com/books?id=3HMCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA412
 
My right eye is definitely dominant but my left eye has slightly better vision. As I tire and as my brain says, "LOOK OUT!! There's a gun by your right eye! All systems now shift to left eye!," then, my left eye takes over.

The way I compensate for all of that is to make a conscious decision before I call "pull" to see my hold point with my right eye. About 1 second of quiet eye on the visual hold point and, "pull." Then, pick up the target with right eye and lock it in. That's the sole job of my conscious mind, to lock in the target with my right eye. All else is the job of the subconscious - lead, speed, distance, and, angle. The subconscious can use the binocular vision however it sees fit but conscious mind keeps the right eye on the leading edge of the target.

Doesn't always work but mostly. That and mounting the gun only just before I pull the trigger.
 
Eye issues.......left eye always closed, been that way over fifty years, always 22-23 out of 25, works for me......do whatever works for you personally!!!!!!
 
Discussion starter · #25 ·
wasthestumper said:
pulpssc said:
Pretty damn amazing story.
Yet not uncommon. My story is the almost identical down to the letter. Same circumstances, same revelation. I'm taping now - initially I started pounding the targets I struggled with and struggling with the targets I used to pound. It's starting to come back into balance, but it's been excruciating at times. You can tape, you can close and eye, or you can do both. Whatever works for your game. But you have to do something. It's hard to diagnose, harder to understand, and harder still to explain to someone else who hasn't experienced it. But once you DO experience it, you know EXACTLY what people are talking about.

The OP did a VERY nice job of putting into context!
Thank you for the kind words and you are so right about the difficulty in explaining it to someone who's never experienced it. Even worse, for those of you that know anything about archery, is the phenomenon of "target panic". I love to bowhunt and shoot the occasional 3D tournament. About 6 years ago I developed TP. Absolutely the strangest "involuntary brain response" you can imagine! Before I developed it, I would have told anyone telling me that I couldn't control my finger better than that, I would have called them a liar! I won't spend your time explaining it here, but search "target panic archery" on your search engine for more info. Mind blowing! I conquered it by switching to a back tension release, thereby avoiding having to pull any "trigger". Ironically, I contributed much of the affliction in my case to 50 years of shooting a shotgun where the trigger pull is instantaneous upon achieving the desired sight picture. It doesn't work that way in archery!

Have a nice day and great shooting to all of you!
 
Discussion starter · #26 ·

A brand new YouTube from Ben Husthwaite. Of all the "magic potions" to address the issue of the occasional shift in eye dominance (not a permanent situation where a right handed person is left eye dominant), this gizmo, IMHO, has a chance of working. I know I'm going to try one as soon as I can get my hands on one!
 
I'm no optometrist but I imagine you could have any number of changes with your left eye - more or less far or near sighted, astigmatism, etc. I'd go have your eyes checked and tell the doc what you are experiencing.

No matter what, do what works. However, if you are like me, the risk is that after shooting well with one eye closed for a while you will eventually go into a slump. Then you will be questioning your methods and go back, which takes time to relearn and will cause further problems.

Good luck!
 
dubob said:
...Bottom line in all this is that when shooting at moving targets, it will always be better to shoot them with both eyes open if your shooting from the shoulder on the dominant eye side of your body AND your non-dominant eye never takes control of your vision with both eyes open. In any other configuration, you will have to make an adjustment by taping or closing one of your eyes to shoot.
That is the accepted wisdom, and I don't mean to dispute it. But I am interested in why it is true. Why is the dominant eye sighting (yes, aiming) down the rib with the other eye closed not at least as good a method? When I close my secondary eye, I do not suffer a huge loss of peripheral vision and ability to pick up the targets. With only the dominant eye sighting down the rib, there is no question that the eye and gun are pointing at the same thing. Would someone please explain exactly why both eyes open is so superior?
 
Because you have better depth perception with binocular vision (both eyes together). As well as better/wider peripheral field of vision.

It's not twice as good (2 vs 1) but it is better. It's hard to quantify it, it's more of a qualitative thing.

There are a lot of things you can do with 1 hand. But they're easier to do with 2.
 
I'm right eye dominant but still close my left eye. I tried two-eyed but it just seemed confusing. One-eyed seems to keep me more focused on the target. I was a benchrest rifle shooter and shot that with both eyes open. One looking thru the scope and the other looking at my wind flags, watching for a change in wind velocity or direction. I had no problem doing that, but with a shotgun, one-eyed is what works best for me. I just do it without any conscious thought.
 
DooFighter said:
Because you have better depth perception with binocular vision (both eyes together). As well as better/wider peripheral field of vision.

It's not twice as good (2 vs 1) but it is better. It's hard to quantify it, it's more of a qualitative thing.

There are a lot of things you can do with 1 hand. But they're easier to do with 2.
Yes, but it seems that for every plus there is a minus. There is the whole topic of this thread, the chance of shifting dominance. There is the destraction of the barrel. There is the tendency to look at the barrel and so on. None of those those things apply to using only the dominant eye. Or either eye for that matter.

Hey, I am just trying to work this out for myself. The discussion is very helpful.
 
rpenmanparker said:
DooFighter said:
Because you have better depth perception with binocular vision (both eyes together). As well as better/wider peripheral field of vision.

It's not twice as good (2 vs 1) but it is better. It's hard to quantify it, it's more of a qualitative thing.

There are a lot of things you can do with 1 hand. But they're easier to do with 2.
Yes, but it seems that for every plus there is a minus. There is the whole topic of this thread, the chance of shifting dominance. There is the destruction of the barrel. There is the tendency to look at the barrel and so on. None of those those things apply to uso g only the dominant eye. Or either eye for that matter.

Hey, I am just trying to work this out for myself. The discussion is very helpful.
This is why I'm starting to favor the "patch" - I don't think about it. I still have my peripheral vision - I see everything I need to see when I need to see it. My brain is adjusting to the rest of it, but I've had to relearn some things.

It is helpful indeed. Perhaps the most interesting aspect is wondering exactly what I was "seeing"/doing before it all went sideways. I'm starting to think I was using some bizarre combination of sustained, swing-through, and spot depending on the station.

Sustained Through Spot - it's the new 'thing' :)
 
This is painful and frustrating but IMO, there is a solution.

Right hand shooter with left eye dominance, and or shifting dominance, chapstick dot on the inside of the lense that will cover up the end of your muzzle when fully mounted with your dominant left eye. This gives you good 2 eye vision until trigger. It works and takes about a flat of shells to get use to it. Tried everything prior and was never satisfied. Have now used this method for 3 years and still miss but it's not the chapstick fault. :shock:
 
wasthestumper said:
rpenmanparker said:
DooFighter said:
Because you have better depth perception with binocular vision (both eyes together). As well as better/wider peripheral field of vision.

It's not twice as good (2 vs 1) but it is better. It's hard to quantify it, it's more of a qualitative thing.

There are a lot of things you can do with 1 hand. But they're easier to do with 2.
Yes, but it seems that for every plus there is a minus. There is the whole topic of this thread, the chance of shifting dominance. There is the destruction of the barrel. There is the tendency to look at the barrel and so on. None of those those things apply to uso g only the dominant eye. Or either eye for that matter.

Hey, I am just trying to work this out for myself. The discussion is very helpful.
This is why I'm starting to favor the "patch" - I don't think about it. I still have my peripheral vision - I see everything I need to see when I need to see it. My brain is adjusting to the rest of it, but I've had to relearn some things.

It is helpful indeed. Perhaps the most interesting aspect is wondering exactly what I was "seeing"/doing before it all went sideways. I'm starting to think I was using some bizarre combination of sustained, swing-through, and spot depending on the station.

Sustained Through Spot - it's the new 'thing' :)
Obviously I meant distraction of the barrel, not destruction of the barrel.
 
rpenmanparker
If you think only 2 eyed shooters encounter the problem of barrel checking, well, I'm glad you're not having that problem. But it is not limited to 2 eyed shooters.

4th down
As for the chapstick solution, isn't that a big mess when it's time to clean your lenses? Tape or a dot seems like less hassle and cleaning has no effect on it.

Each to their own tho, do what works for you. There's definitely a wide range of what works with cross dominance.
 
twohigh said:
I'm right eye dominant but still close my left eye. I tried two-eyed but it just seemed confusing. One-eyed seems to keep me more focused on the target...
Don't take this the wrong way, but that's the definition of a weak dominance. There are varying degrees of dominance. Your right eye may be dominant on a simple finger aim test but in a dynamic situation (eyes moving not stationary) you're either switching to left OR you don't have a significantly dominant eye. Either way, result is the same, using one only works better. This weak or lack of dominance is what allows you to see those flags while scoping without closing the R.
 
DooFighter said:
twohigh said:
I'm right eye dominant but still close my left eye. I tried two-eyed but it just seemed confusing. One-eyed seems to keep me more focused on the target...
Don't take this the wrong way, but that's the definition of a weak dominance. There are varying degrees of dominance. Your right eye may be dominant on a simple finger aim test but in a dynamic situation (eyes moving not stationary) you're either switching to left OR you don't have a significantly dominant eye. Either way, result is the same, using one only works better. This weak or lack of dominance is what allows you to see those flags while scoping without closing the R.
Good point and makes total sense. It served me very well benchrest shooting, where I won at the National level and competed Internationally.
 
DooFighter said:
rpenmanparker
If you think only 2 eyed shooters encounter the problem of barrel checking, well, I'm glad you're not having that problem. But it is not limited to 2 eyed shooters.

4th down
As for the chapstick solution, isn't that a big mess when it's time to clean your lenses? Tape or a dot seems like less hassle and cleaning has no effect on it.

Each to their own tho, do what works for you. There's definitely a wide range of what works with cross dominance.
I don't get what barrel checking even means when the whole idea is to line up the one open eye with the rib. Checking the rib becomes a part of the aiming process to the good.
 
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