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I'm primarily a Skeet shooter. It was my first shooting love and I've come back to it after competing for many years in benchrest rifle shooting, successfully, at a very high level. You wanna talk about a grumpy, picky, demanding, whining bunch of shooters, they could teach trap shooters a thing or two. When I retired from work and wanted to just have fun without stress, I came back to Skeet and found a club with a great bunch of shooters who know how to have fun. I was then invited by some of my skeet buddies to shoot trap at another club. I've been enjoying that as well, also a nice bunch of guys. They have very popular Sunday morning trap shooting events; lots of stories, laughing, jokes, tips etc going on behind the line. On the line, it's tune out the chatter and concentrate on breaking birds. My other club also has trap shooting. It's run by a couple of aloof, grumpy, old men that you're lucky if they say hello to you. The last time I shot there, there were all of 3 of us shooting. That about says it all.
 
Well said. We shooters can be the best people around, or our own worst enemies.....it's up to us individually. But starting off with 'this place is for 'serious' X, Y, Z shooters only is bull.
 
Jim Tyner said:
"As a coach myself, the pay we receive for our time and effort is a slap in the face and don't even get me started about the fanatic parents."

So, Jess, just what kind of coach are you?
Well, I've been coaching total for 20 years. I have a bachelors degree in strength and conditioning/fitness and I have a masters degree in pedagogy with a coaching and health minor. In that time I've coached at the collegiate level, working with division I athletes and even a multi-gold medal Olympian in the long jump. A handful of the athletes I've coached have made it to the NFL and have been very successful. When I left college/semi pro coaching I then went to high school. I coached track, football, baseball, basketball, and volleyball. After high school, I coached at the middle school...again...basketball, track, volleyball. I've also coached archery, coached our fishing club team, and our weightlifting club team.

Jim, there is rudeness in every sport; even when we tell the athletes the correct way. I don't know how many time I've told my lifters to rack their weights when done. I don't know how many times I've told the football players to pound their cleats off before entering the building. I don't know how many times I've told our baseball players don't spit seeds on each other. I don't know how many times I've told our shot and disc kids to quiet down when they are watching someone else compete. How about all the times I've told every athlete to pick up after themselves at a meet, tournament, game, practice, etc.

For one thing, our trap team consists of guys and girls shooting Stevens 555's, 870's, Stoeger O/U's, 1100's, their own field guns, etc. Occasionally you will get a BT-99 but that is about as fancy as our parents spend. The kids don't care if shells are being chucked and quite frankly, neither do the coaches. The emphasis is on good sportsmanship, rooting on your teammates, and picking up when you are done. To me, if a coach demanded that everyone help clean up shells, even though one person who had the O/U collected their own, I would commend that coach for also doing the right thing...making sure you left the field as you found it. But some of you guys think you are above that...so much so that the coaches are called names? Somebody on this thread mentioned entitled kids. The kids have to learn it from somebody...they just don't pop out of the womb entitled.

EVERY sport I've ever been involved with whether as a participant or a coach has had their die-hards, blow-hards, and try-hards. I still after all this time prefer the company of the try-hards the best. The die hards haven't realized that there is always someone better and the blow hards haven't figured out that most of the time if you have to brag about something, you probably aren't that good at it in the first place.

You guys complaining about plastic shells hitting you on occasion reminds me of listening to the die-hards and the blow-hards and quite frankly it just turns me off. This to me is where entitlement rears it's ugly head.

I am also a hunter and to tell you the truth, some of our "outdoorsmen" are the most entitled. Leaving hulls all over public land, shooting up signs and parking areas, cleaning your animals and leaving the remains at the entrance to public land, not obeying bag limits...the list is endless.
 
There's a huge difference (at least to me) between an experienced shooter being rude because they feel like it.....and a new shooter breaching the rules of etiquette because they simply don't know, or are too busy trying to be safe and shoot as best they can.

Lumping them into one group is a mistake, and the 'we'll have words' and stronger comments have no place with the latter group. Patience, and remembering when we were all new at this game goes a long long way making new shooters feel welcome.
 
Rooster booster said:
There's a huge difference (at least to me) between an experienced shooter being rude because they feel like it.....and a new shooter breaching the rules of etiquette because they simply don't know, or are too busy trying to be safe and shoot as best they can.

Lumping them into one group is a mistake, and the 'we'll have words' and stronger comments have no place with the latter group. Patience, and remembering when we were all new at this game goes a long long way making new shooters feel welcome.
Stop being reasonable and level headed!
Can't you see this is an argument?!?
 
Ssanders224 said:
Rooster booster said:
There's a huge difference (at least to me) between an experienced shooter being rude because they feel like it.....and a new shooter breaching the rules of etiquette because they simply don't know, or are too busy trying to be safe and shoot as best they can.

Lumping them into one group is a mistake, and the 'we'll have words' and stronger comments have no place with the latter group. Patience, and remembering when we were all new at this game goes a long long way making new shooters feel welcome.
Stop being reasonable and level headed!
Can't you see this is an argument?!?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Jess said:
For one thing, our trap team consists of guys and girls shooting Stevens 555's, 870's, Stoeger O/U's, 1100's, their own field guns, etc. Occasionally you will get a BT-99 but that is about as fancy as our parents spend. The kids don't care if shells are being chucked and quite frankly, neither do the coaches. The emphasis is on good sportsmanship, rooting on your teammates, and picking up when you are done. To me, if a coach demanded that everyone help clean up shells, even though one person who had the O/U collected their own, I would commend that coach for also doing the right thing...making sure you left the field as you found it. But some of you guys think you are above that...so much so that the coaches are called names? Somebody on this thread mentioned entitled kids. The kids have to learn it from somebody...they just don't pop out of the womb entitled.

EVERY sport I've ever been involved with whether as a participant or a coach has had their die-hards, blow-hards, and try-hards. I still after all this time prefer the company of the try-hards the best. The die hards haven't realized that there is always someone better and the blow hards haven't figured out that most of the time if you have to brag about something, you probably aren't that good at it in the first place.

You guys complaining about plastic shells hitting you on occasion reminds me of listening to the die-hards and the blow-hards and quite frankly it just turns me off. This to me is where entitlement rears it's ugly head.
A good coach would teach that shooting a semi-automatic can result in shells bouncing off an adjacent shooter or his gun.

A good coach would teach that shells hitting another shooter or his gun is poor sportsmanship.

A good coach would show new shooters how to prevent it from happening.

A good coach would not demand a shooter that wasn't part of his team pick up shells when none of his were on the ground.

A good coach wouldn't piss over shooters who object to having their gun or themselves peppered with hulls.

That's what a good coach would do. YMMV.
 
"The kids don't care if shells are being chucked and quite frankly, neither do the coaches. The emphasis is on good sportsmanship,..."

So here is the problem Jess. in trap, hitting other participants with shells from an auto IS considered poor sportsmanship and rude behavior... like not racking weights, wiping sweat off of machines, knocking dirt off cleats or standing in a putter's line of sight. If a coach wants his kids to be accepted on the line as good squadmates, he will tell them to use a 2 cent rubber band or get a $20.00 shell deflector. Not doing this is poor coaching because the coach is not properly preparing his kids to compete.

Thanks for the resume. My dad was a collegiate and high school coach and I grew up as a gym and field rat and can attest to every thing you said.
 
PJR said:
Jess said:
For one thing, our trap team consists of guys and girls shooting Stevens 555's, 870's, Stoeger O/U's, 1100's, their own field guns, etc. Occasionally you will get a BT-99 but that is about as fancy as our parents spend. The kids don't care if shells are being chucked and quite frankly, neither do the coaches. The emphasis is on good sportsmanship, rooting on your teammates, and picking up when you are done. To me, if a coach demanded that everyone help clean up shells, even though one person who had the O/U collected their own, I would commend that coach for also doing the right thing...making sure you left the field as you found it. But some of you guys think you are above that...so much so that the coaches are called names? Somebody on this thread mentioned entitled kids. The kids have to learn it from somebody...they just don't pop out of the womb entitled.

EVERY sport I've ever been involved with whether as a participant or a coach has had their die-hards, blow-hards, and try-hards. I still after all this time prefer the company of the try-hards the best. The die hards haven't realized that there is always someone better and the blow hards haven't figured out that most of the time if you have to brag about something, you probably aren't that good at it in the first place.

You guys complaining about plastic shells hitting you on occasion reminds me of listening to the die-hards and the blow-hards and quite frankly it just turns me off. This to me is where entitlement rears it's ugly head.
A good coach would teach that shooting a semi-automatic can result in shells bouncing off an adjacent shooter or his gun.

A good coach would teach that shells hitting another shooter or his gun is poor sportsmanship.

A good coach would show new shooters how to prevent it from happening.

A good coach would not demand a shooter that wasn't part of his team pick up shells when none of his were on the ground.

A good coach wouldn't piss over shooters who object to having their gun or themselves peppered with hulls.

That's what a good coach would do. YMMV.
This is what you said previously: "If some "coach" starts lecturing me about picking up hulls when mine weren't on the ground or who doesn't instruct his team on the use of shell catchers I'd be calling him a lot worse."

Does this make a good coach too? Telling someone off and calling names? Starting a pi$$ing match in front of kids? If so, I'm glad you weren't mine.
 
Jim Tyner said:
"The kids don't care if shells are being chucked and quite frankly, neither do the coaches. The emphasis is on good sportsmanship,..."

So here is the problem Jess. in trap, hitting other participants with shells from an auto IS considered poor sportsmanship and rude behavior... like not racking weights, wiping sweat off of machines, knocking dirt off cleats or standing in a putter's line of sight. If a coach wants his kids to be accepted on the line as good squadmates, he will tell them to use a 2 cent rubber band or get a $20.00 shell deflector. Not doing this is poor coaching because the coach is not properly preparing his kids to compete.

Thanks for the resume. My dad was a collegiate and high school coach and I grew up as a gym and field rat and can attest to every thing you said.
I'll give you hitting others might be considered poor sportsmanship for some. It personally doesn't bother me but I can't vouch for others. Where I get ticked Jim is when guys on here go off half cocked about what they would say to the coach, how they would react if they were in the situation, etc. Personally, it makes serious trap shooters look like a-holes when those types of comments are made. Now, if you guys don't want to get lumped into "that group" then don't permit that kind of foolishness either...because what you permit, you promote. Just so we are clear, I use a shell catcher on all me semi autos if used in competition.
 
Hmmm...this seems like a no brainer. When I teach trap one of the topics that is covered as etiquette and part of that discussion includes picking up your hulls, using a shell catcher, turning off your cell phone, not moving around on the line when others are shooting etc. I've never had anyone object to etiquette as an expectation and frankly I don't consider it to be coaching per say. These are the basics of reasonable behaviour on the line.
When we coach we work on gun mounts, holdovers, foot positions etc...
We have fun when we shoot, even when it's serious...we bust each others chops...we pay attention to chips and misses and extemporaneous oh sh*ts and often do it quietly on the line so that we are not launching birds and interfering with someones focus, eye contact up and down the line ...and we celebrate a good score and are aware of one when it happens and come off the line acknowledging it. Grumpy old farts that can't see the sport in that need to find another squad.
 
Ssanders224 said:
Shoot Skeet.

Problem solved! ;)
Most of us don't look good in high heels and Tutu's.

Yes, I'm joking and I also shoot some Skeet.

I like many here will shoot any Clay game.

All games have their share of a-h----.

But Trap is still the best.
 
Jaspo01 said:
Ssanders224 said:
Shoot Skeet.

Problem solved! ;)
Most of us don't look good in high heels and Tutu's.

Yes, I'm joking and I also shoot some Skeet.

I like many here will shoot any Clay game.

All games have their share of a-h----.

But Trap is still the best.
Much better!:)
 
emgerrish said:
Hmmm...this seems like a no brainer. When I teach trap one of the topics that is covered as etiquette and part of that discussion includes picking up your hulls, using a shell catcher, turning off your cell phone, not moving around on the line when others are shooting etc. I've never had anyone object to etiquette as an expectation and frankly I don't consider it to be coaching per say. These are the basics of reasonable behaviour on the line.
When we coach we work on gun mounts, holdovers, foot positions etc...
We have fun when we shoot, even when it's serious...we bust each others chops...we pay attention to chips and misses and extemporaneous oh sh*ts and often do it quietly on the line so that we are not launching birds and interfering with someones focus, eye contact up and down the line ...and we celebrate a good score and are aware of one when it happens and come off the line acknowledging it. Grumpy old farts that can't see the sport in that need to find another squad.
Agree absolutely with teaching and demonstrating good etiquette, it's part of what makes shooting sports enjoyable. And yes, getting pelted with empties can be annoying and costly (ding in the nice gun).

But when I'm introducing clay shooting to newcomers, it's safety, fundamentals, etiquette. In that order, once they are comfortable safely handling the gun. Usually not a problem setting a squad of kids, or new shooters.

If you're an experienced shooter, and you're the odd one in a group of kids.... is it gonna kill you to take on the role of polite mentor for a round?
Jeez folks, this stuff is common sense, manners, maturity and experience, not brain surgery.

Walking around the club looking like you had a root canal and a colonoscopy in the same day has got to go.

Now, heels and tutus are not a good look, especially when the colors clash. Try to be coordinated, and remember to accessorize properly. Ask any trappie for new ideas.
 
The trap range was once a great place to hang out with your pals, shoot some... maybe have a cold beer, now all the goody two shoes have made it into a pansy-*** bunch of kids and wanna-be control punks!

Kids enjoyed getting paid to push the button, pick-up hulls and shoot a couple rounds with shells given by shooters after the day. Lawyers and punks took away all that was. Auto machines came because clubs were scared of everything!
 
Jess said:
This is what you said previously: "If some "coach" starts lecturing me about picking up hulls when mine weren't on the ground or who doesn't instruct his team on the use of shell catchers I'd be calling him a lot worse."

Does this make a good coach too? Telling someone off and calling names? Starting a pi$$ing match in front of kids? If so, I'm glad you weren't mine.
The difference is that unlike you I'm not claiming to be a "coach." You are the one parading your so-called credentials in this thread not me.

I know a good coach when I see one. You don't make the grade.
 
mcneeley5 said:
The trap range was once a great place to hang out with your pals, shoot some... maybe have a cold beer, now all the goody two shoes have made it into a pansy-*** bunch of kids and wanna-be control punks!

Kids enjoyed getting paid to push the button, pick-up hulls and shoot a couple rounds with shells given by shooters after the day. Lawyers and punks took away all that was. Auto machines came because clubs were scared of everything!
Kids, punks, and lawyers.....quite a combination.

Do you still shoot?
 
Jess, most guys wouldn't say in person what they type here. That's one of the effects of posting under a sign on name. Because I post under my name, I don't post anything that I wouldn't say or do at the club this weekend or be ready to defend if someone approached me about it.

I shoot a 30+ year old MX3 and not being a "gun guy" to me it's just a tool to use. However, I shoot with guys with $25,000 guns and a ding from a shell means real money when they go to sell it or trade it in.
 
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