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Scores: 23, 23, 24, 24, 24, 24. Scores improved when I stayed aggressive the whole time. 1 more to go!
And even if you shoot a hundred straight, so what? Who is going to remember in 20 years?

The important question is not what your scores are, it is, "Are you having fun?"

"Do you feel like you are going in the right direction?"

"ARE YOU HAVING FUN?"
 
And even if you shoot a hundred straight, so what? Who is going to remember in 20 years?

The important question is not what your scores are, it is, "Are you having fun?"

"Do you feel like you are going in the right direction?"

"ARE YOU HAVING FUN?"
Good questions. My scores are important to me for about 2 sessions so I can see how I'm doing from one visit to the next. During this last visit I was able to get them to improve by one target a round over the course of a single visit - 6 rounds altogether. That was important and fun because and it lends validity to what I'm doing. So does the smoke I was getting out of the targets. I feel I am going in the right direction. I don't mind sharing scores and technique here in case someone else might benefit. If not, ok.

3 or 4 or 5 mores posts in this thread and my post will be gone as well. But later, someone else searching to improve might benefit. The concept of subconscious shooting was in a thread when I needed it after a lull in scores which was not fun. Specific before/after examples mentioning scores got me interested. Thanks!
 
This completely ignores the most important aspect -- shooting a clay you are having to track a tiny object that is at times moving very fast. At times, and especially as your eyes get older, or if you are fatigued, the muscles that move your eyes to do that tracking quit working quite as well. Either eye may momentarily quit tracking all together every now and then. When that happens to the two-eyed shooter he does not even notice, because the other eye's muscles are working fine and he just tracks with that eye.

The one-eyed shooter is suddenly shooting blind when that happens.

So one-eyed shooting may work okay with young eyes, but it is highly likely to be disappointing once you start to age. Kim Rhode just shot the selection match in Tucson. She isn't that old but is now consistently running 10 - 14 birds behind the top two-eyed gals. Corey Cogdell didn't even show up.
Except you don't track a clay target by moving your eyes. You do it by moving your whole upper body with your eyes fixed. Eye muscles have nothing to do with it. And the idea of one eye moving to keep up with a target when the other can't is just absurd.
 
Comic, and creative, neuro-ophthalmology Ralph.

Absent congenital or childhood "lazy eye" (amblyopia), or an acquired disorder such as diabetic cranial nerve palsy, MS related Internuclear Ophthalmoplegia or Myasthenia Gravis (and a bunch of other problems) eyes DO work in tandem, and one eye does not "momentarily quit tracking all together every now and then".

Yes, with fatigue and loss of concentration, we may lose our focus on the target, which is NOT a suddenly acquired strabismus.

Or by "quit tracking" are you now affirming dominance shifting?
 
As we age every muscle in our body quits working with the precision they had when we were younger. Each eye has its own set of muscles.

But we don't need to get into that. Two eyes simply read a clay target better than one does. On simple targets it probably does not matter because dead is dead. But on very difficult targets it matters.

If one eye worked just fine on difficult targets we would have seen a man with a taped lens shooting in an Olympics trap singles final at some point in last hundred years. We never have and never will.
 
…and yet we have seen Italian Luciano Giovanetti win back to back Olympic Trap Gold medals in 1980 and 1984…

Suzy Balogh winning Gold in Trap in 2004 in Athens…

Dave Carrie winning World FITASC Gold in Portugal 2014…

There are some pretty strong assertions in this post falsely citing visual phenomena (or the absence of which) the authors know nothing about.

It’s too late in the evening for me to fact check everything…Google is your friend
 
…and yet we have seen Italian Luciano Giovanetti win back to back Olympic Trap Gold medals in 1980 and 1984…

Suzy Balogh winning Gold in Trap in 2004 in Athens…

Dave Carrie winning World FITASC Gold in Portugal 2014…

There are some pretty strong assertions in this post falsely citing visual phenomena (or the absence of which) the authors know nothing about.

It’s too late in the evening for me to fact check everything…Google is your friend
Giovanetti did not shoot with glasses, much less with tape on them. Yes, Balogh won gold in 2004 and then shot a 15/25 in the finals in London in 2012. The 66 she shot in qualifying in 2004 would not even get her into the finals in today's competitions.

In Moscow in 1980:


1984:


Look, if there was a good reason to block an eye, I'd be all for it. For the vast majority of people blocking an eye, there isn't. They just did not know how to deal with the problem when they first started shooting.

And if you're such an expert, Ed, how come you can't take x-dom kids and teach them to shoot just fine two-eyed off their strong shoulder, like I do?
 
I like the waving picture, it’s most convivial.

Correct - interesting how many elite trap shooters choose not to wear glasses!

in these cases I’m citing examples where there isn’t total binocularity. If you do some research you’ll find out what I mean.

If it’s a Gold, it’s a Gold, it’s not an “ah but” Gold just because it doesn’t fit your narrative.

Im glad you’ve got a system and are helping people enjoy their shooting, more power to you.

It’s a shame you added the Ad Hominem in there at the end, I’ve never claimed to be an expert in anything, least of all coaching, I stay in my lane 😉
 
in these cases I’m citing examples where there isn’t total binocularity.
I think therre is almost never "total binocularity." That is why you want to have every eye you possess reading every target.

If it’s a Gold, it’s a Gold, it’s not an “ah but” Gold just because it doesn’t fit your narrative.
There simply were not that many women shooting competitively then. The women almost never shot the percentages the men did, even with shorter courses of fire.

Now they are shooting the same courses of fire (qual's of 125) and shooting much closer to the same percentages/scores. The women's Tokyo trap gold medalist put up a perfect 125/125, and Browning wasn't far behind her.

But as with the men, it is only the two-eyed women who are putting up those scores. The one-eyed women are eating dust.

Perhaps that is just a coincidence, but it isn't just a "narrative."
 
This is so stupid. “The one-eyed women are eating dust.” So do you shoot better than them? If not, and we know that is the case, then just give it a rest. Most of us are not trying to be the best in the world, just trying to have some fun. If we can do that more readily with one eye, what’s the harm? Why force a problematic and difficult technique on folks for whom it is never going to make any difference anyway just because that is how the best of the best do it. Anything that is good enough for the almost best of the best (one-eyed women) is sure as hell good enough for me. Especially when it is what I naturally want to do anyway. Sheesh, you just don’t get it. Being happy and comfortable with how you shoot is the most important thing of all. Not emulating the Olympic champions. Just doing what you like.
 
Friend oaf, Some guy asked for help and the answers vary. Like you, I look at it as a problem to solve for myself, although my answer is different from yours. Some look at science for help, some use their experience in teaching others. And what we all have in common is the fun we have while doing this. I'm going to unwatch this thread and go back to my own problem solving, keeping track of scores and smoked targets. See you in the Olympics. Heh.
 
This is so stupid. “The one-eyed women are eating dust.” So do you shoot better than them? If not, and we know that is the case, then just give it a rest. Most of us are not trying to be the best in the world, just trying to have some fun. If we can do that more readily with one eye, what’s the harm? Why force a problematic and difficult technique on folks for whom it is never going to make any difference anyway just because that is how the best of the best do it. Anything that is good enough for the almost best of the best (one-eyed women) is sure as hell good enough for me. Especially when it is what I naturally want to do anyway. Sheesh, you just don’t get it. Being happy and comfortable with how you shoot is the most important thing of all. Not emulating the Olympic champions. Just doing what you like.
If you or any other experienced shooter wants to block or shut an eye, I couldn't care less. I do not post here for you, I do it for the people just starting out, and for the few old-timers like superskeet, who posted this back on page 1;

I'm a very left eye dominant RH shooter. Been shooting either one eyed closed or with tape on my left lens since 1967. 2 years ago I decided I wanted to up my game and the best way I could come up with was to learn to shoot with 2 eyes. Long story short I wound up teaching myself how to shoot 2 eyed without knowing anything about Ralph's ideas on the topic, and when I did learn of Ralph's blog just a few months ago it was 95% in line with what I had discovered myself in learning how to shoot 2 eyed. It has improved my game immensely and made shooting seem so much easier.
Making the conversion from one-eyed to two has also "improved my game immensely and made shooting so much easier." It has also made shooting a LOT more fun. However, it was much more difficlut for me (and others I know) than it was for superskeet, and for that reason I readily admit that most people who have been shooting one-eyed for years will NOT be able to successfully make the conversion, or will find it too much of a hassle. And that's okay.

My over-riding goal is to raise the level of shooting of the young people who will go on to someday seriously compete internationally, and to keep more women and kids in the sport (even if they are never going to seriously compete). The way to do that IMO is to get beginners started out shooting two-eyed off their strong shoulder, even if they are x-dom. The only way to do that is to teach the hundreds of kids' coaches out there how to do it, because that is where the mold is formed. At least I'm trying.

I helped Corey Cogdell and her dad pick out her first shotgun when she was about 13 years old. And then I watched as the club Know-It-All gave her an eye-dom test, authoritatively declared her x-dom and taped her left lens. I firmly believe that had Corey been instead taught to shoot two-eyed off her right shoulder (she never was actually L-eye dominant), she would still be winning medals at the Olympics, and they would be gold. Corey had an incredible gift for shooting, and it was scuttled by one guy who thought he was an expert on "eye dominance," when if fact he knew next to nothing. But once someone goes down that one-eyed road, it is very difficult to ever get off of it.
 
Thank you Peter. Very interesting, though much of it is beyond me.
I took the liberty of organizing the links for easier access
Lessons - Pete Blakeley

and started a thread here
Peter Blakeley on how we see, and hit targets | Trapshooters Forum

SSSRD & The Cortex Eye, John F. Price
Simultaneous, Sectional, Suppression and Retinal Dominance
Is available on Kindle from Amazon
S.S.S.R.D. and the Cortex Eye: Price, John F.: 9781907107153: Amazon.com: Books
But is also on a website
How we perceive space (google.com)

From SSSRD
Changes in Dominance - Clay Pigeon Shooting

Price published a follow up in 2017
The Real Life Observation Proof Study of S.S.S.R.D. and the Cortex Eye and Also the Dome Shaped Image: The Two Permanent Structures in the Optic Array for Binocular and Monocular Visual Perception
The Real Life Observation Proof Study of S.S.S.R.D. and the Cortex Eye and ... - John F. Price - Google Books
 
That is the difference between a coach and an instructor. Instructors are separating you from your money, and that happens much more readily and repeatedly if the client "likes" what he is being instructed to do.

When I was a pitcher on my high school baseball team we had practice 5 days a week. Some days the coach would have us pitch some, and some days not, but every single day we had to run laps while the rest of the team did batting, fielding and throwing practice. It was "one size fits all." It was "my way or the highway." There was no "giving this pitcher what he needs 'cuz we are all unique."

We pitchers thought it was stupid and cruel to make us run so much. We had no idea that was how it would be in the majors, if we made it that far. All we knew was that all that running on those hot days was painful.

It was also exactly what we needed, if we wanted any hope of being really good, but if we had had the choice we would have found a new coach.
 
This is the way to go and the sooner the better. Why fight it? Like I said, I started my right handed kids shooting on the left side when I saw they were both cross eye dominant. They feel the same way I do about shooting on the right side with my dominant right eye--natural. No tape while clay shooting, squint while hunting. You just shoot.

Obviously, the longer one has been shooting from the non-dominant side, the transition will take longer.
My wife was new to shotgun shooting. I'm not sure if I didn't check her correctly at first or if her eye dominance .changed. She shot a spring trap league a few years back. Part way through the league we determined that she was left-eye dominant, shooting right-handed. In between the Spring and Summer league, she switched to left-handed shooting. It was not all smooth sailing and sometimes her eyes fight each other. Based on watching her, and shooting with her, I would strongly suggest that if you are a relatively new shooter, shoot from the side of your dominant eye.
 
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