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King,

As far as an “all around” shotgun goes…

If you have the money to be able to keep your “sporting” shotgun and your “game” gun different, please consider it.

As far as trap/skeet/sporting clays guns go, these fine people will offer you many options.

I had owned a Franchi Instinct that I had bought because I wanted a nice over and under for trap shooting. As it turned out, while the 7 pound weight could be survived, the auto-engaging field safety was a burden on the trap field. Long story short, I sold it and went to a Browning Citori CX for clays until I got deeper into the sport. The Browning Cynergy is also worth a look as is the Beretta Silver Pigeon. Used well-made guns are almost always a great value.

I’d stick with something of lighter weight for upland hunting, and something target oriented for sports if you have the means. If you only upland hunt for 4 hours or so, the browning cxs or cx is a great and durable choice. I did love my cx. I do not have a dog, therefore I am the dog…so I found myself wanting something lighter for my long days trudging through the fields for pheasant. A 28” Browning Citori skeet at 8 pounds proved to be tiring after 6-8 hours in the field carrying at the ready position.

Automatics are always a good choice too. Some modern ones are available with modest heft, enough to carry in the field with their reduced recoil making casual clay shooting pleasant enough. I personally just don’t like to hunt down my hulls when firing on live game. The Beretta A300 is a reputable auto available for as little as $750 new in the box and has enough adjustments with spacers and widgets to make a satisfying clays gun.

The Fox Sterlingworth is an absolutely solid classic in the field for sometimes little money, perhaps less than you’d pay for a modern Turkish offering. Many modern clay guns of great value are branded with the letter “B”.
 
If you want an O/U I'd up the budget by at least $500. That way you can get yourself into a used Beretta 686/87 or something from Browning's Citori line. I just looked on GB and they had a couple of Citori's new in that price range. To me, these two brands are the gold standard for O/U shotguns. They are robust, and reliable and will last you a lifetime. As John Trigger mentioned, one will likely fit you better than the other. I have a 686 that was a gift 30 years ago. I remember handling both it and the Citori, the Beretta personally fit me better. If looking for a Semi-auto, Browning, Benelli, Beretta all offer models well within your stated budget.

I will say this though, I recently purchased a Montefeltro Silver Featherweight. Beautiful gun, but if I had to choose between it and my plain Jane 686 Onyx, I would pick the O/U any day. If you really want an O/U, you should go for it. Buy once cry once, especially if this is going to be your "forever" shotgun, and you don't plan to get another.
 
If you are just going to be shooting trap league like we do around here, it is single targets (no doubles) from 16 yards. The Browning BT-99 is a dedicated single shot trap gun set up to pattern about 80/20 with stacked beads and definitely in your price range. They have models with adjustable combs and adjustable ribs. I know you said you didn't want a single use gun, but most shooters who stick with the game eventually end up getting a dedicated trap gun anyway. Save money and only buy once. This is from another rifle guy (and maybe some nice SXS's for bird hunting).
 
No offense taken, this is exactly the info I'm looking for. Generally speaking, what should I expect to pay for both a quality new and used over under? I can adjust my budget if need be.
Consider, $3,000. to $5,000. will obtain a shotgun that will last a long time. Like anything else that is manufactured, there can be flaws in the parts, wood stocks, firing pins, springs etc. Name brands like Browning, Beretta, even Winchester and CZ are all good just depends on the individual.
 
Number 1 consideration, get a gun that FITS. I did not know this and went with a Browning Citori from my previous experience with other Browning products. Great gun, except it does not fit me well. Not gonna throw good money after bad to modify it either. Found a shop where I could shoulder everything they had and did so with an experienced clays instructor. I committed to a Beretta 694, which is way out of your desired price range, but I did so knowing it fit me, it 'feels right' to me, and it's one and done, a keeper for however long I'm able to do this. Previous suggestion of find a range that has guns you can try is also a good one! I was a complete shotgun rookie, but combining a gun that fit, three one-on-one lessons, and a ShotKam to review my shooting took my scores from 12-14 to 21 at skeet. A 25 awaits... Good luck!
 
Suggestions:
1. If you predominantly shoot trap, you need a heavier o/u. If you predominantly hunt birds you need a lighter o/u. There are no free lunches (well, maybe in Seattle). Choose the type of gun by the activity you will do more. A dedicated trap gun is too heavy/cumbersome for upland bird hunting. A light bird gun will ABUSE you in trap shoots.
2. BUY USED. I see many used guns on auctions, gunny websites, club bulletin boards, newspapers, etc.
3. Some guns APPRECIATE in value, some not so much. A most excellent Model 12 trap or, a Superposed hold their value very well. A higher quality used gun is much better than a new, overpriced low quality gun.
4. If you decide to buy a “compromise” gun, get a used quality semiauto. But, that means you need to maintain it and clean it. You need to replace recoil springs. Get a gas auto. There are only two: Winchester Super X-1; 2. 303 Beretta.
The X-1 is heavier and sturdier.
Good luck!
 
Like you I'm much more into rifles. That said I do go sporting clays shooting with my buddy. At first i used my older Benelli M1 semi-auto but when My buddy got a new Browning Citiori over and under he wanted to sell me his almost new FRANCHI Instinct L. It fit me so well that I bought it from him and have been very happy with it.
So that is my recommendation for you. At the least physically handle one at a store and i think you will really like it.
Mine is the "base" model which means it is the same as the top model but with little fancy engraving.
 
Gauge- 12 for sure. Least expensive, and the most (by a mile) available. You will not feel "under gunned" as you progress, and attribute misses to a smaller gauge etc. Eliminate as many little things that can mentally effect your game.

Configuration- Multi shot for sure, a semi or an OU. I would leave the SXS for when you have gone deeper into shot gunning. Although a great argument can be made to get a dedicated Trap gun (BT-99 etc.), you will more than likely have an opportunity to shoot some 5 Stand, Skeet, and Clays etc. I suggest that you keep your options open, and spend the money on something far more utilitarian initially. Granted, I shoot Trap with a true Trap gun, but I have other shotguns for the various disciplines.

Nice- What constitutes "nice"? I can say that there is a general consensus on this for the most part. You usually get what you pay for, but there are better deals than others. I think that you are paying a premium on Beretta O/U shotguns, meaning it's the absolute limit (dollar wise) on what you can stomach to get one (price vs. quality). I really like the Beretta 680/690 Field configurations for pure hunting applications, so for that I will pay. Not picking on Beretta, as they are universally accepted as "nice" and for a reason.

Just some random opinions-
 
New ideas to the thread:

Do not get an Ithaca Model 37 for clay shooting. The nice ones are 60-80 years old now. They will last another hundred years if you carry them nicely in the field and put a box of shells through them a year. The same with a Sterlingworth, LC Smith, Wingmaster or Browning BPS. These are status guns in my mind, sort of like showing up at a car show with a 1969 GTO or Shelby at a car show. They are not for daily driving or long road trips. They are not as comfortable as modern shotguns, especially the semi-auto, and are not easily repaired or replaced. My firm opinion is that the most practical all around shotgun is a gas operated semi-automatic 12 gauge in the just about $2,000 category. (Beretta or Fabarms to my mind. My cash went for a Fabarms L4s Hunter. Over time, I came to regret not spending more on the fancy looking one, but that was eased by buying another fancy looking shotgun for impressing my friends with bling.) Ruger is RIGHT OUT. I love Ruger dearly but their shotguns are a disaster. The famous Ruger service does not apply and there are no spare parts.

Fit- this can not be said enough- fit is everything. If spending $1500, you owe it to yourself to find a shop that has someone that can do basic fitting. This is not going to be Bass Pro/Cabelas! How do you find such a place?

Go to your local club, before you buy a gun. You will be considered a wise sportsman instead of a sorry noobie. The sorry noobie shows up with the wrong shotgun that cost a lot of money and now is reluctant to spend even more to make it right. This happens many times every season. Ask the fellas. Plan on spending a few afternoons learning and talking. Find out where their gunsmith is and where they buy guns. Look at the equipment board. These are guns that you can inspect and ask the seller questions, the seller is not likely to vanish once the sale is made, and once a shotgun is running it's a LONG time before it needs service. New guns are finicky sometimes until the kinks are worked out. I am much more confident in a used gun with an inspection, test shoot, and previous owner I know than a new gun.

Pump guns are hard on the shoulder, long of receiver, and take some getting used to to shuck shells for doubles.
A good over and under is much more expensive as the expensive barrels and trigger mechanisms are .. doubled!
Side by sides are even more expensive because top quality ones are now not made in bulk.
Cheap double guns sound great if you're an expert and can do your own repair, tuning, have spare guns for when your cheapy is in the shop, and you like tinkering and fussing. If you just want reliable- it's a roll of the dice. You CAN get a real bargain. You can also get a real klinker.

Semi-autos:
Inertia- hard to beat for a hunting gun. Perhaps trade ease of cleaning for a bit harder recoil. (Duck hunting and rough use specialist.)
Gas- Hard to beat of all-around. MUCH softer shooting. You'll notice it right away.
In both cases, modern recoil pads also create much comfort. You'll feel it.
Fit is important!

Weight-
For a hunting gun, I love my Ithaca model 37 at 6 1/4 pounds. It's a joy to carry. In the excitement of a flushed bird, I don't notice the recoil. A few seasons ago I bought a new L4s because my wife was mocking me for my green, brown, and yellow shoulder. A steady diet of pheasant hunting with only an Ithaca Model 37 had bruised me black and blue. No recoil pad, just a butt plate, as they were made in the 40's. I didn't notice the pain, by the way. It's the gun my dad always shot, and I think of him when carrying it.

My L4s is 6 3/4 pounds. This is one of the lightest modern 12 gauges out there. With the long receiver, the weight is forward. After about 4 hours of walking, my forearm is getting sore, where the gun rests. Because of the quality of workmanship and operation, this would be one of the last guns I would ever part with- it's extraordinarily versatile. The only thing I would not care to do with it is take it in a duck boat and use it as a paddle.

My 20 gauge Syren (same as an Elos over and under, around $3k) is 6 3/4 pounds as well. Because the receiver is so much shorter, you want longer barrels. Even so, the balance point is much closer to the trigger. It feels lighter, because of this balance. Even with a good recoil pad and fit, this 20 gauge kicks harder than my L4s gas operated semi auto. It's immediately noticeable, even when the 20 gauge is launching a quarter ounce less of shot. Keep that in mind!

This is why the guys that shoot clay exclusively have shotguns that weigh up around EIGHT pounds, to soak up recoil.

As I mostly hunt, that would be unpleasant. In my youth, I had a turkey gun that weighed that much. It was like carrying a railroad tie around. I came to hate it! With the excellent barrel and choke on my fabarms, as well as it being ready to mount optics and gas operation and good pad to soak up recoil, I would turkey hunt tomorrow with this gun. We're not even discussing modern turkey loads.

Weight- it's always easier to add some on than to shave some off.

That said, having shot 6 1/4 pound guns, I would NOT care to have any gun in the 5 pound range that was not gas operated and for very special purpose like hunting grouse or partridge where lots and lots of walking was done to shoot midsize birds. Maybe for 28 gauge or .410 bore.

What about the gauge?
12 gauge- "I have a Ford F-150. Say what you want but it does it all and I can always find parts and service. We are legion."

16 Gauge- "I have a reloading press!"

20 Gauge- "This is how I was brought up and I'm a darned good shot. It can do anything a 12 can. Really. Really it can." (Stomps foot petulantly, not mentioning the cost of those shells.)

28 gauge. "Of course I have a reloading press and more cool shotguns in the safe than you can shake a stick at."

.410 "If I am not shooting rabbits or squirrels, I am at the skeet range with one foot in a bucket, meat in my sock, and five labradors because I am just looking for more of a challenge!"
 
New ideas to the thread:

Do not get an Ithaca Model 37 for clay shooting. The nice ones are 60-80 years old now. They will last another hundred years if you carry them nicely in the field and put a box of shells through them a year. The same with a Sterlingworth, LC Smith, Wingmaster or Browning BPS. These are status guns in my mind, sort of like showing up at a car show with a 1969 GTO or Shelby at a car show. They are not for daily driving or long road trips. They are not as comfortable as modern shotguns, especially the semi-auto, and are not easily repaired or replaced. My firm opinion is that the most practical all around shotgun is a gas operated semi-automatic 12 gauge in the just about $2,000 category. (Beretta or Fabarms to my mind. My cash went for a Fabarms L4s Hunter. Over time, I came to regret not spending more on the fancy looking one, but that was eased by buying another fancy looking shotgun for impressing my friends with bling.) Ruger is RIGHT OUT. I love Ruger dearly but their shotguns are a disaster. The famous Ruger service does not apply and there are no spare parts.

Fit- this can not be said enough- fit is everything. If spending $1500, you owe it to yourself to find a shop that has someone that can do basic fitting. This is not going to be Bass Pro/Cabelas! How do you find such a place?

Go to your local club, before you buy a gun. You will be considered a wise sportsman instead of a sorry noobie. The sorry noobie shows up with the wrong shotgun that cost a lot of money and now is reluctant to spend even more to make it right. This happens many times every season. Ask the fellas. Plan on spending a few afternoons learning and talking. Find out where their gunsmith is and where they buy guns. Look at the equipment board. These are guns that you can inspect and ask the seller questions, the seller is not likely to vanish once the sale is made, and once a shotgun is running it's a LONG time before it needs service. New guns are finicky sometimes until the kinks are worked out. I am much more confident in a used gun with an inspection, test shoot, and previous owner I know than a new gun.

Pump guns are hard on the shoulder, long of receiver, and take some getting used to to shuck shells for doubles.
A good over and under is much more expensive as the expensive barrels and trigger mechanisms are .. doubled!
Side by sides are even more expensive because top quality ones are now not made in bulk.
Cheap double guns sound great if you're an expert and can do your own repair, tuning, have spare guns for when your cheapy is in the shop, and you like tinkering and fussing. If you just want reliable- it's a roll of the dice. You CAN get a real bargain. You can also get a real klinker.

Semi-autos:
Inertia- hard to beat for a hunting gun. Perhaps trade ease of cleaning for a bit harder recoil. (Duck hunting and rough use specialist.)
Gas- Hard to beat of all-around. MUCH softer shooting. You'll notice it right away.
In both cases, modern recoil pads also create much comfort. You'll feel it.
Fit is important!

Weight-
For a hunting gun, I love my Ithaca model 37 at 6 1/4 pounds. It's a joy to carry. In the excitement of a flushed bird, I don't notice the recoil. A few seasons ago I bought a new L4s because my wife was mocking me for my green, brown, and yellow shoulder. A steady diet of pheasant hunting with only an Ithaca Model 37 had bruised me black and blue. No recoil pad, just a butt plate, as they were made in the 40's. I didn't notice the pain, by the way. It's the gun my dad always shot, and I think of him when carrying it.

My L4s is 6 3/4 pounds. This is one of the lightest modern 12 gauges out there. With the long receiver, the weight is forward. After about 4 hours of walking, my forearm is getting sore, where the gun rests. Because of the quality of workmanship and operation, this would be one of the last guns I would ever part with- it's extraordinarily versatile. The only thing I would not care to do with it is take it in a duck boat and use it as a paddle.

My 20 gauge Syren (same as an Elos over and under, around $3k) is 6 3/4 pounds as well. Because the receiver is so much shorter, you want longer barrels. Even so, the balance point is much closer to the trigger. It feels lighter, because of this balance. Even with a good recoil pad and fit, this 20 gauge kicks harder than my L4s gas operated semi auto. It's immediately noticeable, even when the 20 gauge is launching a quarter ounce less of shot. Keep that in mind!

This is why the guys that shoot clay exclusively have shotguns that weigh up around EIGHT pounds, to soak up recoil.

As I mostly hunt, that would be unpleasant. In my youth, I had a turkey gun that weighed that much. It was like carrying a railroad tie around. I came to hate it! With the excellent barrel and choke on my fabarms, as well as it being ready to mount optics and gas operation and good pad to soak up recoil, I would turkey hunt tomorrow with this gun. We're not even discussing modern turkey loads.

Weight- it's always easier to add some on than to shave some off.

That said, having shot 6 1/4 pound guns, I would NOT care to have any gun in the 5 pound range that was not gas operated and for very special purpose like hunting grouse or partridge where lots and lots of walking was done to shoot midsize birds. Maybe for 28 gauge or .410 bore.

What about the gauge?
12 gauge- "I have a Ford F-150. Say what you want but it does it all and I can always find parts and service. We are legion."

16 Gauge- "I have a reloading press!"

20 Gauge- "This is how I was brought up and I'm a darned good shot. It can do anything a 12 can. Really. Really it can." (Stomps foot petulantly, not mentioning the cost of those shells.)

28 gauge. "Of course I have a reloading press and more cool shotguns in the safe than you can shake a stick at."

.410 "If I am not shooting rabbits or squirrels, I am at the skeet range with one foot in a bucket, meat in my sock, and five labradors because I am just looking for more of a challenge!"
Excellent post! Really sums up shooting vs hunting and each type of shotgun. It reflects my experience as well, just wish I had read something like this 20 - 30 years ago. It would have saved me much aggravation and money.
 
Discussion starter · #34 ·
Thank you everyone for all of the suggestions! You have given me plenty of information to consider. I am going to talk to some folks I know who are currently in the league, and check the fit of what they have. I think I will have better luck handling guns of people I know, or meet at my gun club. All of the smaller gun shops in my area have very limited inventory, especially when it comes to higher end firearms. Given what I've learned so far I'm starting to lean more towards getting a shotgun that is dedicated to trap. I don't do a ton of bird hunting, and the cheaper shotguns I currently own serve the hunting purpose well enough for the time being.

BT-99 seems like it could work well for me, as long as it fits well, looks like a new one can be had for around $1300.

For those suggesting an auto-loader, what do you do to prevent the spent hulls from being thrown at the other shooters?
 
For those suggesting an auto-loader, what do you do to prevent the spent hulls from being thrown at the other shooters?
T&S Shell Catcher is available for the Beretta semis; seems they have discontinued them for the time being for the Remington 1100
 
Thank you everyone for all of the suggestions! You have given me plenty of information to consider. I am going to talk to some folks I know who are currently in the league, and check the fit of what they have. I think I will have better luck handling guns of people I know, or meet at my gun club. All of the smaller gun shops in my area have very limited inventory, especially when it comes to higher end firearms. Given what I've learned so far I'm starting to lean more towards getting a shotgun that is dedicated to trap. I don't do a ton of bird hunting, and the cheaper shotguns I currently own serve the hunting purpose well enough for the time being.

BT-99 seems like it could work well for me, as long as it fits well, looks like a new one can be had for around $1300.

For those suggesting an auto-loader, what do you do to prevent the spent hulls from being thrown at the other shooters?
You look over at them and say "Please step back behind the line, buddy! What are you doing standing up here?"
 
Very good advice. I’d look hard at the CXS from Browing.
Agree. The CX and CXS are a great value for a proven product. Basically the Citori platform that has been around for decades and run steady and quite reliably. I have a crossover target which is an early version of the current CX. It is the 60/40 pattern version. If it had been offered at the time the 50/50 pattern CXS would have been my choice
 
I'm going to lead this by admitting that I am certainly more of a rifle guy than a shotgunner. I am an avid reloader and have many more quality rifles than I need. However, I only own a few cheap shotguns that are for specific hunting tasks. Currently I have a Remington (Baikal) SPR453 12 ga. auto loader, Mossberg International SA-20 and a Stevens 555 28 ga.

I'm looking to purchase a quality shotgun for general use, mostly for target shooting. My wife and I were in a casual trap shooting league years ago, and we are looking to get back into it next season. I bought her a new Browning BPS Micro Midas 20 gauge as an all purpose shotgun, to cover her for turkey hunting, pheasant and clays.

Now I'm trying to find a nicer quality shotgun that would suit me well for mostly trap shooting. I'm not sure I want something that is a dedicated trap gun. The league we are looking to rejoin is not overly competitive, I'm certainly not an overly serious trap shooter, and it would be nice to use the gun for upland or sporting clays as well.

I would like to stick with a 12 gauge, but I'm not decided on an action. I'm leaning towards and over/under but I'm open to quality pumps and autoloaders. I'm looking to spend under $1000, or maybe $1,500. So far I've been looking at a Franchi Instinct for new. But I'm very open to purchasing a quality used shotgun like a Model 12, Ithaca 37, Ruger Red Label, etc.

I have a wealth of knowledge when it comes to rifles, but I could definitely use some help in the world of shotguns. Any advice or guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!
I'm going to lead this by admitting that I am certainly more of a rifle guy than a shotgunner. I am an avid reloader and have many more quality rifles than I need. However, I only own a few cheap shotguns that are for specific hunting tasks. Currently I have a Remington (Baikal) SPR453 12 ga. auto loader, Mossberg International SA-20 and a Stevens 555 28 ga.

I'm looking to purchase a quality shotgun for general use, mostly for target shooting. My wife and I were in a casual trap shooting league years ago, and we are looking to get back into it next season. I bought her a new Browning BPS Micro Midas 20 gauge as an all purpose shotgun, to cover her for turkey hunting, pheasant and clays.

Now I'm trying to find a nicer quality shotgun that would suit me well for mostly trap shooting. I'm not sure I want something that is a dedicated trap gun. The league we are looking to rejoin is not overly competitive, I'm certainly not an overly serious trap shooter, and it would be nice to use the gun for upland or sporting clays as well.

I would like to stick with a 12 gauge, but I'm not decided on an action. I'm leaning towards and over/under but I'm open to quality pumps and autoloaders. I'm looking to spend under $1000, or maybe $1,500. So far I've been looking at a Franchi Instinct for new. But I'm very open to purchasing a quality used shotgun like a Model 12, Ithaca 37, Ruger Red Label, etc.

I have a wealth of knowledge when it comes to rifles, but I could definitely use some help in the world of shotguns. Any advice or guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!
IMO: If you want a great, reliable, maintenance-free, all-purpose shotgun, (even if you don't buy it), just try a Savage Renegauge. My 1100 & V3 went into retirement when I got mine.
 
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