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jesflorida

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
About one half of the tournaments I shoot at Central Florida clubs do not have referees on the stations for monthly matches.

Which person on the squad should function as the referee for Rules determinations?
Squad member who is scoring at the time?
Squad member who is pulling at the time?
Squad member who is a Certified Referee, but not scoring or pulling?
OR?

The “No Bird” scenario, called or not called, happens frequently.
The rules restricts this call to the referee only.
 
We normally go with whoever is actually keeping score.

Try and limit ours to a squad a 5, shooter, on deck, in the hole, puller, score keeper. When the first shooter is done he takes over for the puller, when second shooter is done, he takes over for score keeper. Then just rotate through lead off shooter at each station. Keeps the flow going.

Ideally you have a score keeper and a puller, but if I want to shoot registered targets locally, then it is SYO or sit it out.
 
About one half of the tournaments I shoot at Central Florida clubs do not have referees on the stations for monthly matches.

Which person on the squad should function as the referee for Rules determinations?
Squad member who is scoring at the time?
Squad member who is pulling at the time?
Squad member who is a Certified Referee, but not scoring or pulling?
OR?

The “No Bird” scenario, called or not called, happens frequently.
The rules restricts this call to the referee only.
Now you see why the NSCA classification system is a joke
 
Bwana9, why are you assuming everyone is a cheater? Are you a registered shooter? The shooters I squad with are too competitive to give away a target.
I've shot a limited number of NSCA targets, but as opposed to outright cheating, I've seen more "I hit that. You saw the break, right?" Not fun having to officiate or argue someone else's score when you're there to focus on yours.
 
Bwana9, why are you assuming everyone is a cheater? Are you a registered shooter? The shooters I squad with are too competitive to give away a target.
Where on earth did you get the idea that I was assuming cheating? I think this is you projecting about yourself. If just any body with or without skills or knowledge of the rules judges the hit/miss or the no bird then the value of winning you class is wiped out. I agree squads can be tough, but are they right?
 
Where on earth did you get the idea that I was assuming cheating? I think this is you projecting about yourself. If just any body with or without skills or knowledge of the rules judges the hit/miss or the no bird then the value of winning you class is wiped out. I agree squads can be tough, but are they right?
You can probably add slow pull to that.
 
If have chance to shoot at a clay, I'll try my best, even a broke clay. I mean it is not a live bird where a real chance of wounding and losing exist. If I miss, as I often do, I'll somehow survive and be right back on the course as soon as I can. If some one in the squad calls it lost or dead or no bird, "or what the hell?", all are find with me. I'll be ready for the next one. I might also add that this doesn't matter if it is me and my buddies or at the Nationals.

Life is too short to sweat the small stuff and unless the shots are aimed at you, it is all small stuff.

s/f. Steve
 
A lot of the nsca events I've done I'm sure there's inaccuracies on the score card we turn in. The squad I shoot with is talking and joking all the time. This part doesn't bother me because they are just having a good time. That said, there are times when no one is really paying attention when a shooter is in the cage. Then the questions start coming after the shells are fired. Did you hit that? Was that a no bird? One time the lady keeping score had no idea about any rules, not her fault as she's never shot before, and we asked her to hold the clip board. Yes I could shoot with a different group, but I don't know anyone else who shoots registered. Usually now I just shoot practice targets alone. I can concentrate more and go at my own pace.
 
I shot in a regional event recently. I wear hearing protection. Hearing the trapper, scorekeeper, referee who spoke softly was a challenge, or so it turns out! It was not until a few stations later reviewing my score, I realized that when I heard her say Dead Pair, which I thought was correct, she actually said lost Pair...That particular station is brutal in the early morning sun, she missed it, she is an experienced trapper, and I didn't hear her. Poop happens.

And...if I'm shooting a SYO with buddies, no way are they going to give me a freebee!
 
For MANY Clubs SYO is the only way to shoot Registered in many areas of the country unless you care to travel all over to the bigger shoots that have trappers/scorekeepers.
None of the folks I've squaded with at SYO events NO ONE gave you any slack.

So it's each shooters choice to shoot SYO or not.
 
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Most squads would designate refs before shooting. Scorers just mark what the ref says. It should be 2 refs, so when one is shooting the other can officiate.
Competitive shooters shooting with each other are generally honest. They won't give a target but they won't take one away either. They want the same fair shake they are giving someone else. For the most part, the checks and balances work. Registered shoots are going to die without refs, this is an attempt at a solution and a way to keep shooting fees down.
 
We normally just rotate the scoring , pulling among the squad. Once in a blue moon we might keep the score card out of someone’s hands if they are constantly jacking things up. And it does happen, not often though.
 
All this talk for the last two years on NSCA registered shoots is the entire reason why I don't shoot registered any more. I've just had enough of it.
The good-old-boy scenario pack, guys covering each other's back.
I just stand in the back and watch what's going on, pulling multiples over, scoring targets broke in the tree limbs, do overs, what crap.
I'm stuck always doing the right thing but not others as long as no Cop is there to slap anyone down. It's like watching people doing 75-mph in a 55-zone and never any Cops around to write tickets. Twelve to fifteen years ago I felt all the events I went to were pretty much on the level, but not anymore. And what did they gain, points? They gained nothing! If these same guys went to a legitimate controlled registered event, they would all fall flat on their very embarrassed face. Master Class has become nothing less than a joke. If a club can't have trained referees, they can't have registered events. If a trained referee is caught padding somebody's card he loses his state permit. It would be a simple thing to have a ["paid"] traveling referee pull and score registered events. Two referees per club, $100 per referee [not a hosting club member] but paid by the hosting club. No squad goes out on the course without an official-ref.
I know, there are lots of you NSCA shooters that think this is crap. But then, it's entirely possible you might bring back the lost serious shooters that follow rules, and a little dignity back to this decaying sport.
Just try playing a PGA tour event without referees, ain't gona to happen.
Mike
PS: Just watch now, all those shooters holding $6-K to $12-K shotguns, buying a skid of shells in their $100-K Suburban, and driving hundreds of miles for a sporting event will be the first to complain about paying a referee to keep them from cheating. Ironic don't you think?
Scattergun,
Obviously you’ve encountered the worst of everything. There are definitely individuals that will do anything to scam the system in order to win which is unfortunate. Personally I have a very low opinion of cheaters. I haven’t shot registered clays as of now, but have shot many regional and state competitions in HP rifle. I rarely saw anyone cheating in those. Does it happe? Most likely unfortunately. To me, anyone that wins through dishonesty only has a hollow victory that holds no real meaning to said cheat. I personally lost a regional championship by 3 points due to a crossfire. I called for a mark on my target and was given a 7 for score as I was certain I had fired a 10 or x which was on my neighbors target. I do my best to do the right thing in spite of what others do as I’m sure the great majority here do also.
 
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