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I wish I didn't delete the email but was told by alliant that chedite could be substituted. That was about a year ago. Maybe I am wrong for doing it, I did ask and took it as a good to go. This was after looking over other powders to see what the pressure and velocity are between win and cheddite.
Alliant put out an email a while back that has been shared here and on Trapshooters.com website.

I believe they stated :

The rule of thumb is if you have a pressure between 6,500PSI and 8,500Psi you can switch primers. If the load is lower or higher than these pressures don’t switch the primer.

However, the Alliant load you're referencing is 10,580 psi, and that is way over Alliant's safe range for primer substitution. I can definitely see your safety concern.

I switched to Longshot powder and Nobel Sport primers and sent a batch to Tom Armbrust for testing and I was very happy with the results.
 
Thank you, I guess I was incorrectly informed. I am not on the transporters forum so never saw that. I am not saying it's a good thing but I have 6 boxes left out of the 5 flats I had loaded with this data and substitute. I will use the last 6 boxes then reconsider what my options are, and getting win 209 is not an option around here.
 
Discussion starter · #84 ·
I can't find your published load on the Alliant web site. All 20/28 loads on the Alliant site use Winchester primers.

Most are closing in on 12,000 psi and I would never think of subbing a Cheddite primer.

Who should I 'Google' to find the published load you're using? Thanks!
The load is not on the Alliant site. Two similar loads with the same components were posted on the TS forum. One had 13.0 grains of 20/28, and the other had 13.5 grains. Both loads tested within SAMMI specs.
 
I’m tardy to the party but I’ve seen those results last year with 20/28 and cheddites using 13.0 grains with velocities around 1250. Using 13.0 grains measured on a calibrated scale and 3/4 oz of shot, Winchester 209s I was getting 1290 fps average. I realize that velocity and pressure do NOT correspond completely but I’ve lowered my recipe to 12.5 grains of 20/28 just in case and will change to chedite primers this next loading session. I suspect that Alliant published data is on the low side for pressure stated since so many test I’ve seen with 13.5 grain loads have been over pressure. As far as chedite primers, they’ve not only been about the only thing available they’ve been 100% reliable. I’m sticking with them from now on if they’re available.
 
The load is not on the Alliant site. Two similar loads with the same components were posted on the TS forum. One had 13.0 grains of 20/28, and the other had 13.5 grains. Both loads tested within SAMMI specs.
Sorry if I was unclear. It might be a simple misunderstanding of words.

When someone claims 'published' I assume something on a web site or in print from a manufacturer.

That is different than sharing personal test results on SGW or TS.com. Those personal tests are not 'published' loads. They are simply shared data.

They weren't double tested and proof checked to avoid any legal implications. That is what happens before load data is professionally 'published'.

The majority of us out here prefer to rely on professionally published data. There are others who trust the data shared on TS.com.

I personally pick and choose which shared data I trust enough to try.

The fact that both of your loads tested within SAAMI specs is good to know. Good luck finding a good combination that crushes targets!
 
Discussion starter · #87 ·
Sorry if I was unclear. It might be a simple misunderstanding of words.

When someone claims 'published' I assume something on a web site or in print from a manufacturer.

That is different than sharing personal test results on SGW or TS.com. Those personal tests are not 'published' loads. They are simply shared data.

They weren't double tested and proof checked to avoid any legal implications. That is what happens before load data is professionally 'published'.

The majority of us out here prefer to rely on professionally published data. There are others who trust the data shared on TS.com.

I personally pick and choose which shared data I trust enough to try.

The fact that both of your loads tested within SAAMI specs is good to know. Good luck finding a good combination that crushes targets!
Thanks for the clarification. Just to be clear, my tested loads came back overpressure both times. The loads that tested okay were from about a year ago.
 
Thanks for the clarification. Just to be clear, my tested loads came back overpressure both times. The loads that tested okay were from about a year ago.
Thanks for the update! I've settled on Longshot for my 28AAHS hulls. It seems easier to find and $217 is much better than $298 for 20/28!
 
I believe what Alliant said was "the rule of thumb is if you have a pressure between 6,500PSI and 8,500Psi you can switch primers. If the load is lower or higher than these pressures don’t switch the primer, for 12 ga. only..
Thanks for adding the '12 gauge only' part. I missed that when I read the Alliant email posted on TS.com.
 
They were not. I did a 10-shot drop test and then loaded 6 shells on a PW 800+. I wanted to test what was coming from my loader, not "lab test" shells.
I have loaded 10 shells as requested by a manufacturer and I am sending components for another 25 loads. I will report back after I receive more information. As @Silver_Is_Money moniker states, "You can evade reality, but you are not free to evade the consequences of reality."
Your tests were done based on your procedure because you were looking for a particular answer to a specific situation.

That's what testing is for... answering a question you can't answer yourself.

However, there are a few people who disagree with your testing procedures, and I think I understand why...

I think most people would like to see as many variables removed from a pressure test as possible, although that may not be what you were trying to accomplish.

For example, you did a 10-shot drop test to determine the average shot drop of your loader. Then you loaded 6 shells for testing.

The variable in this case is the assumption that the next 6 shells would average about the same as your previous 10.

Although I don't doubt they probably did, that's not an assumption that can be verified, which makes your shot drop value a variable, not a constant.

The same can be said about your powder drops when not individually measured. Probably correct, but not individually verified before testing.

Also, how a shell is loaded can influence a pressure reading. Sending your components to be loaded on a different loader introduces additional variables.

I'm pretty sure the values you received were quite accurate and exactly what you were looking for when paying to have them tested.

I think the big difference is the fact that your answers were not for the same questions as other who send shells for testing.

Your answers were for your questions only and simply can't be used to answer the pressure/velocity questions of others. Good luck!
 
Any communication from the company you sent the components to?

Jim
 
Discussion starter · #97 ·
@Pmollo & @Holyjoe60, I am glad both of you are having success. I created one load at 13.3 and 13.5 grains with Cheddite Primers. Alliant has loads of 13.0 and 13.5 posted on their website. I sent the loads for testing twice. I sent a bunch of loads to the manufacturer at their request. On Friday, they apologized for the delay due to a shipping error and had my package in possession. They should start testing this week. Below are both of my testing results sent in two different times. I learned a lot speaking with the engineer. I may have a hot batch of primers and a hot batch of powder, both of which may be in manufacturing tolerance, but may be a bad combination. @Pmollo, How is your stack height?


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@Pmollo & @Holyjoe60, I am glad both of you are having success. I created one load at 13.3 and 13.5 grains with Cheddite Primers. Alliant has loads of 13.0 and 13.5 posted on their website. I sent the loads for testing twice. I sent a bunch of loads to the manufacturer at their request. On Friday, they apologized for the delay due to a shipping error and had my package in possession. They should start testing this week. Below are both of my testing results sent in two different times. I learned a lot speaking with the engineer. I may have a hot batch of primers and a hot batch of powder, both of which may be in manufacturing tolerance, but may be a bad combination. @Pmollo, How is your stack height?


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Stack height is fine. I’ve actually switched to longshot for 28 ga. It’s much easier to find and I really like the load. I posted it over on TS in the tested load thread.


I use 14gn of 20/28 with Cheddite for 3/4 20 ga loads. Also had that tested with 7/8oz.
 
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