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Thanks for your insight. Much appreciated.
You're most welcome. I forgot to add, I really do like shooting the 825, it handles and shoulders so well, better than my 725 IMO...
 
I don't know if I like the 688 that much. I mean it is fine to me. But I have no point of reference, as it is my first shotgun. Since my son shoots it so well, it becomes his and gives me a good excuse to buy another firearm. (Lol). I'd like to try something different and sort of zero'ed in on Browning. I am hoping it can grow on me.
Browning’s are excellent shotguns. You will have to learn if you can shoot them well or not. I did not.
Most people that do well with Beretta’s don’t.
Personally for me I thought I was a Browning person. But after I branched out away from Trap shooting to other games I learned differently. I shot standard Citori’s including a 425 12ga. 30” and a 20 ga. CXS. Never shot consistently with them. Now the Browning’s are mostly gone and replaced with 4 Beretta’s. A 688 is one of them.
I saw dramatic improvement including consistency.
Have you considered other Italian makes like the Fabarm Elos N2 or the B Rizzini 110 Sporting?
Or possibly a Caesar Guerini? I have a Summit. It is a very well made and fine shooting gun.
There is someone selling a beautiful CG Challenger in the classifieds at a fraction of the new price.
It is at the price of a new 725 Sporting.

 
What exactly do you mean? The adjustable combs are not worth it?
Browning factory adjustable combs use garbage hardware. The design and built quality are basically the joke of the gun industry. It uses a weird system were a bolt comes out through the recoil pad to loosen and tighten. Absolutely terrible in every way shape and form, entirely possible the #1 worst adjustable comb hardware/design ever used (I take that back, the Beretta plastic "Memory" hardware was worse).

Aftermarket adjustable combs use vastly superior hardware both in design and build. Browning got REAL close in the past, the Citori Plus guns used hardware that's just fine, as did the recent BT99 Plus, hell even the current standard grade BT99 hardware is better than what they put on the Citori, although that's a terrible design as well.

Berettas also use garbage hardware. It absolutely boggles my mind why Browning and Beretta can't equal even the most rudimentary homemade adjustable comb hardware in durability and functionality. And no, I'm not exaggerating.

Plus if you get a factory comb it greatly limits you in terms of shortening the stock, whether you want shorter LOP, a recoil pad adjuster, a recoil reducer, ect. And that weird bolt coming out thought the butt makes even putting a different pad on the gun difficult.

I would pay the same or more for a Browning without a factory comb! Most aftermarkets are cheaper than what Browning upcharges anyways.
 
Discussion starter · #27 ·
Browning’s are excellent shotguns. You will have to learn if you can shoot them well or not. I did not.
Most people that do well with Beretta’s don’t.
Personally for me I thought I was a Browning person. But after I branched out away from Trap shooting to other games I learned differently. I shot standard Citori’s including a 425 12ga. 30” and a 20 ga. CXS. Never shot consistently with them. Now the Browning’s are mostly gone and replaced with 4 Beretta’s. A 688 is one of them.
I saw dramatic improvement including consistency.
Have you considered other Italian makes like the Fabarm Elos N2 or the B Rizzini 110 Sporting?
Or possibly a Caesar Guerini? I have a Summit. It is a very well made and fine shooting gun.
There is someone selling a beautiful CG Challenger in the classifieds at a fraction of the new price.
It is at the price of a new 725 Sporting.

Thanks for your insight. As I just start with shotguns, I have read and watched a lot discussions and reviews. I am actually aware of all the Italian guns you mentioned, the Fabarm Elos, Riz 110, CG. To be honest, they all appeal to me VERY VERY much. I have even looked all over to find out where and how I can buy them. I didn't look at the classifieds much yet because as a new forum member I don't have enough privilege to post/reply there. (That's okay. I am familiar with these rules, as I am an active member on several handgun forums and have gone through the processes.)

From my reading (mostly here), I understand fit is the most important factor. That's what prevents me from jumping into those Italian guns which mostly start at $5K. I start with Beretta and Browning because they have perhaps the largest number of followers. So they should fit most people reasonably well. Since I consider myself a normal person (albeit my wife may disagree, lol), Beretta and Browning should be okay for me. (So far, the Beretta 688 is.) I also decide somewhere $3K is a good starting point -- a very good gun that can give me perhaps 95% of everything and won't make me regret if it really doesn't fit me. I plan to shoot a lot before moving up to "better" guns. (Thus, the 688 but not the 694 or even the DT11...)

I don't know if I am making sense. I do like those Italian guns, very much.
 
Discussion starter · #28 ·
Browning factory adjustable combs use garbage hardware. The design and built quality are basically the joke of the gun industry. It uses a weird system were a bolt comes out through the recoil pad to loosen and tighten. Absolutely terrible in every way shape and form, entirely possible the #1 worst adjustable comb hardware/design ever used (I take that back, the Beretta plastic "Memory" hardware was worse).

Aftermarket adjustable combs use vastly superior hardware both in design and build. Browning got REAL close in the past, the Citori Plus guns used hardware that's just fine, as did the recent BT99 Plus, hell even the current standard grade BT99 hardware is better than what they put on the Citori, although that's a terrible design as well.

Berettas also use garbage hardware. It absolutely boggles my mind why Browning and Beretta can't equal even the most rudimentary homemade adjustable comb hardware in durability and functionality. And no, I'm not exaggerating.

Plus if you get a factory comb it greatly limits you in terms of shortening the stock, whether you want shorter LOP, a recoil pad adjuster, a recoil reducer, ect. And that weird bolt coming out thought the butt makes even putting a different pad on the gun difficult.

I would pay the same or more for a Browning without a factory comb! Most aftermarkets are cheaper than what Browning upcharges anyways.
Okay, thanks for the detailed explanation. I didn't know any of it. (My self-education so far has not covered DIY aftermarket fixes yet.) I will take your advice.
 
Browning factory adjustable combs use garbage hardware. The design and built quality are basically the joke of the gun industry. It uses a weird system were a bolt comes out through the recoil pad to loosen and tighten. Absolutely terrible in every way shape and form, entirely possible the #1 worst adjustable comb hardware/design ever used (I take that back, the Beretta plastic "Memory" hardware was worse).

Aftermarket adjustable combs use vastly superior hardware both in design and build. Browning got REAL close in the past, the Citori Plus guns used hardware that's just fine, as did the recent BT99 Plus, hell even the current standard grade BT99 hardware is better than what they put on the Citori, although that's a terrible design as well.

Berettas also use garbage hardware. It absolutely boggles my mind why Browning and Beretta can't equal even the most rudimentary homemade adjustable comb hardware in durability and functionality. And no, I'm not exaggerating.

Plus if you get a factory comb it greatly limits you in terms of shortening the stock, whether you want shorter LOP, a recoil pad adjuster, a recoil reducer, ect. And that weird bolt coming out thought the butt makes even putting a different pad on the gun difficult.

I would pay the same or more for a Browning without a factory comb! Most aftermarkets are cheaper than what Browning upcharges anyways.
The browning CXS (and I would assume CX and CXT) come with a graco adjustable comb with two bolts on the side of the stock like just about every single other manufacturer. I have NO CLUE why they don’t do the rest of their models like that. Brownings offerings are all off in some small way. No flat rib 825, bad comb hardware, hi-viz sight system standard, porting, every model has some outdated major feature. The CX and its variants look like they debuted in the early 80’s. None of their guns but maybe the pro comes with a negrini case. It’s like they don’t want to be competitive in the space.
 
Discussion starter · #30 ·
Thanks for your insight. As I just start with shotguns, I have read and watched a lot discussions and reviews. I am actually aware of all the Italian guns you mentioned, the Fabarm Elos, Riz 110, CG. To be honest, they all appeal to me VERY VERY much. I have even looked all over to find out where and how I can buy them. I didn't look at the classifieds much yet because as a new forum member I don't have enough privilege to post/reply there. (That's okay. I am familiar with these rules, as I am an active member on several handgun forums and have gone through the processes.)

From my reading (mostly here), I understand fit is the most important factor. That's what prevents me from jumping into those Italian guns which mostly start at $5K. I start with Beretta and Browning because they have perhaps the largest number of followers. So they should fit most people reasonably well. Since I consider myself a normal person (albeit my wife may disagree, lol), Beretta and Browning should be okay for me. (So far, the Beretta 688 is.) I also decide somewhere $3K is a good starting point -- a very good gun that can give me perhaps 95% of everything and won't make me regret if it really doesn't fit me. I plan to shoot a lot before moving up to "better" guns. (Thus, the 688 but not the 694 or even the DT11...)

I don't know if I am making sense. I do like those Italian guns, very much.
I just browsed the classifieds and saw a great deal for a Beretta 694. If only I could... oh well...
 
I don't know if I like the 688 that much. I mean it is fine to me. But I have no point of reference, as it is my first shotgun. Since my son shoots it so well, it becomes his and gives me a good excuse to buy another firearm. (Lol). I'd like to try something different and sort of zero'ed in on Browning. I am hoping it can grow on me.
Can't go wrong with a Browning. I work on guns and the Brownings are slightly heavier. Not to where it makes that much difference. There is alot to be said for the Beretta shotguns. Where I live there are several Duck clubs, one of which requires a shooter to only use break open guns. They shoot more Beretta shotguns there than Brownings. If you know someone that has one and would let you try it out is probably the best way to see how you like them. I like and own Brownings, but have a couple Berettas also. I do have an Ithica century that I shoot most of the time, but it's a single barrel.
Good luck on your choice. Dave Beutler. Dave's gun cleaning and repair ffl.
 
Not sure, but I read the 825 was a little more streamlined in breech and fore-stock. This was done to be more in line with Beretta and other Euro over-unders. This might be a better fit for you. I would shoot one somewhere before spending 3+k! I have sporting 725 and did not like it at first, but it grew on me and I shoot it well now.
 
I shot a 725 for 7 or 8 years. I had Tron install his excellent brass adjustable comb hardware, which added considerable weight (I think the final weight of the gun is close to 9 pounds), which balanced the gun well for me. Never had any issues with Tron's system, but I have seen more than one Browning adjustable comb that wouldn't stay put or would rattle. I would avoid any Browning 725 with a factory adjustable comb. While I never felt the ports did much other than make the gun loud, but I never did anything more to clean my barrels than I do with the non-ported guns I own. What did get annoying was the light strikes on the lower barrel, gun malfunctions in a registered shoot add up and get in my head. Getting parts from Browning is a trip back to the 90's (faxing in an order???), Midwest was a little more but at least on-line. I replaced the last pin with a K-80, seems to have solved the problem. I have a CXS 20 and an XS 28, I think I've replaced the 20's pin once and I know I replaced the 28 just because it was a used gun and it is really easy to do. My 725 is now in the hands of a youth shooter, he's happily banging away with it...and I sent the last spare pin I had with it! I had a Beretta SV-10, zero problems with it, but I just shot the 725 better. Some folks are Beretta folks, some are Browning. Sold it to my brother, he loves it. The 725 is very popular in my area (Idaho), I see lots of them in the racks at registered shoots, either the 725 or 825 will serve you well. Whatever feels better and shoots better for you, and most shooters will let you try their gun if asked.
 
The browning CXS (and I would assume CX and CXT) come with a graco adjustable comb with two bolts on the side of the stock like just about every single other manufacturer.
They still use the janky system the BT99 does (which is why the screw holes don't line up with the comb posts), a friction clamp that requires you to put a lot of torque into aluminum threads. It's Graco mfg, but a terrible design. They could just use regular graco aftermarket hardware and it'd be 100x better.
 
Anyone have (lots) experience with both and can share your thought? I am thinking of getting one and not sure about the choice. I know there is always the "standard" answer of "BOTH". But even that has an order ... which one first, lol.

I am just starting and have no experience with Browning. My only other O/U is a Beretta 688 and my son has taken over it from me...
I have owned both Beretta and Browning shotguns and shot both of them extensively, they both exhibit good quality. Either one you choose will likely be satisfactory as far as quality is concerned. Another advantage is that they are easy to find on gun shelves across the nation so there's opportunity to go and pick them up and get a feel for their dimensions and balance and how they fit you personally. I would recommend that. Balance and fit can be some of the most important factors in your shooting success.
I would also recommend looking into other manufacturers. Within that same relative price range there are others out there that are equal in quality and may fit you well. Don't become fixated on the B guns. There are good German guns and Italian guns and Turkish guns...
If you are going to shoot competitively and frequently (thousands of rounds), choose a gun for which you can access good service. All guns may need some work now and then.
 
They still use the janky system the BT99 does (which is why the screw holes don't line up with the comb posts), a friction clamp that requires you to put a lot of torque into aluminum threads. It's Graco mfg, but a terrible design. They could just use regular graco aftermarket hardware and it'd be 100x better.
Yes you’re right, I forgot it used pinch bolts also. I sold the gun before I ever shot it, the no cast stock didn’t fit me at all.
Image
 
Anyone have (lots) experience with both and can share your thought? I am thinking of getting one and not sure about the choice. I know there is always the "standard" answer of "BOTH". But even that has an order ... which one first, lol.

I am just starting and have no experience with Browning. My only other O/U is a Beretta 688 and my son has taken over it from me...
The 688 in 32" is a heavy tank as they added 5oz to the receiver - however it does absorb the 1 1/8oz kick better than most. Good Luck...
 
I wouldn't buy a dedicated clay target gun, as I'm primarily a hunter. I bought a 12 gauge 725 field gun about 18 months ago and I like it fine. The dedicated guns have barrels far too long (32"? Really?) and they're too heavy to hoist to the target, much less drag around in the field. I also have a 20 gauge Citori White Lightning with the updated engraving; that one is fine too. I can use either on Skeet or sporting and they didn't break the bank, or my arms either...just my $.02.....
 
70 yo here, owned Browning’s since 1965, great company that has always stood behind their product. Currently own 3 725s, one S3 black edition 32” and two Euro 725 ProSports, thoroughly satisfied with all of them, no experience with 825 but from the reviews I’d buy the 725 of your choice and pocket the difference in price,YMMV.
I just purchased a Fausti Nero sold by Sportsmans Warehouse, not a fancy wood gun but I hope a good starter gun for me shooting clays. I have others also a 1953 Browning Auto 5 made in Belgium( Humpback) and an 870 Remington Fieldmaster pump with 2 barrels. I cannot wait to get back to shooting. My wife has been under the weather so I have been kind of home bound. I know the Brownings are well thought of . Thankyou for your comments. 69 years old here.
 
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