Shotgun Forum banner
1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have reloaded many years ago and want to start it up again because of the expense of field loads. So maybe I'm a bit dangerous because I can remember some stuff but not enough. So .....I have a few questions for you guys. I would like to make a 20g. 1oz field load that is at 1300fps or greater in a 2.75 hull. I'll be using either copper plated or magnum shot. Now i've looked at the Hodgdon web site and downloaded their recipe book and have been studying it for some time. Now some questions and observations..... what is the big difference between longshot and 800X powder? It seems one gets higher fps with the 800X but I see most use the longshot on this forum. Does one burn cleaner than the other? Is one less expensive than the other? I also see recipe's in one type of hull and that same recipe is not listed for another hull. Does the type of hull really make that much of a difference? For example ... using a Federal hull it list Powder: 800x-21.0 gr , Primer: Rem 209P, Wad: Rem SP 20, = 1325fps. Using any other type of hull ... the recipe is not listed nor is a similar recipe even listed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,358 Posts
BuckeyeB,
From reading your post, the only recommendation I can give you is to buy the #5 Lyman Shotshell Reloading Handbook. Read the how-to sections thoroughly, and then read them again, untill you thoroughly understand the procedures. This should answer about any questions you might have, and give you an understanding of what this is all about

Just an FYI. Personally, I would NEVER attempt 1 oz. 20 ga. loads in 2-3/4 inch hulls at speeds of 1300 plus FPS. THese are about as practical as placing a saddle on a sow. If you need that much shot. in a speed that fast, you really need to be loading it in a 12 ga., not the 20 ga..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hey I'm glad that you got it .... I want a performance of a 12g in a 20g. I'm sick and tired of carrying a 12g. heavy gun in the field and want to go to a lighter 20g. Last year I shot federal 2.75, 1oz, at 1350fps shell. I really loved 'em and want to make something like it at home. Factory price on a box this year is around $17. Ouch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
589 Posts
Hi, I dont really know what your hunting but if it Pheasant that Longshot recipe for i think it is 17 grs. works well for me on pheasants. No need for anything more out of the 20 ga, anyway as far as speed goes
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yes it is for Pheasants - and I see that one at 1220fps - calls for using a Remington STS hull, Fed 209a primer, Wad is the WAA20F1 and 16.5 gr of longshot powder. But while I was at it why not go for the gusto and go for 1300+fps and really get some kick *** knock down power? I've shot and killed pheasants with 1 ounce target loads in the past and they do work but ... why do all the manufactures make the higher speed shells for game loads? It is for the shoot 'em dead - knock down killing power.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,771 Posts
You say that you've killed pheasants dead with 1 oz target loads in the past...
.. how much deader will you kill them with a kick-a$$, shoot 'em dead, knock down killing power load?

I get the idea of clean kills and all that, but 20s can't be made into 12s without giving up some important stuff.
Adding 75-80 fps isn't going to increase range or "killing power".
Or is it that you just really hate pheasants that much?

BTW... A friend hunts pheasants with a 7/8 oz, 1220 fps load of #6 in a lightweight 20-ga.
When he hits one, it falls dead.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the reply. I was wondering if you could explain the "stuff" I would have to give up from going to a 20 from a 12. Having never shot pheasants with a 20g I'm interested in learning more about this. Also please explain the comment "Adding 75-80 fps isn't going to increase range or "killing power". How do you figure?

Also, I'm looking at a box of 20g. shells from Federal. It says 20g - 2.75 - 1oz - 1350fps. And I wonder how many thousand/millions of boxes of shells federal will sell of these this year. And I wonder how many thousand hunters "hate pheasants that much". Hummmmm. There must be a demand for these otherwise hunters would not buy them and Federal would not make them.

And yes, I like clean kills.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
719 Posts
BuckeyB,

Just how many pheasant do you plan on harvesting per year?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,476 Posts
/

Here's what I work within:

http://data.hodgdon.com/shotshell_load.asp

_________________________________________________________________________________

Buckeye, you have pretty much the same dilemma I have faced sinced last year when I hunted (successfully) with a 12 ga, and shifted this year to a 20 gauge.

I think you can pare down your demands just a little bit though. That is, the real cow here is your demand for 1350 fps. That is so fast that it is massive over-velocity as I understand it.

Like you, I enjoy the idea of a 800-x or a Longshot. But you really don't need more than 1150 fps to 1250 fps (common for Longshot Powder). So if you ease upon on your demand for the high velocity, you will more easily find a nice safe Pheasant load.

If you think about it, we can get an overkill from several things.

(a) Shot size (b) Shot load Weight in total (c) Velocity.

If you pare down your insistence on Warp 9 velocity, you should be happy with your reloading.

I'm curious as to what you do this year. I'm loading Longshot myself, and for Pheasants, will probably do a 1 oz load. But I still have time before the season starts, to load my stuff. Stay in touch, okay?

/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,955 Posts
BuckeyeBob,

Indeed, you can buy those heavy, fast factory loaded 20 ga shells. Yes there is a demand for them. It is from folks like you that just can't understand why more isn't better.

1 oz loads give significantly more recoil, ya, ya, I know you're a tough guy. Tell me that after shooting 250 pheasants this season. Nothing smacks your shoulder like a hot 20 ga load in that nice light easy to carry all day 20 ga shotgun! I know this from first hand experience. I've got a lovely little light Franchi Veloce 20 ga. It'll let you know it's there when you pop off a heavy load!

Why is 75 or 80 fps not going to make any difference in knockdown powder at long ranges. Well, I don't have the formulas right at my fingertips this second, but depending on shot size and speed the retained energy for a shotgun charge drops off pretty fast relatively speaking. If you arbitrarily assign a figure that is or is not an acceptable ft lb of energy to be effective at some arbitrary range for killing pheasants, ad 75 fps to the formula from the 1220 or 1225 fps load and see how much it changes the distance or remaining energy at your arbitrary range. Once you've figured that out, get hold of the pheasants and let them know that they are supposed to die when hit at that range with that velocity of shot charge. They'll want to know that!

Adding 1/8 oz of shot to a 20 ga pretty much only adds length to shot string. If you think that is beneficial, then go for it. A pattern board doesn't tell you much about shot string, like it is important or something. An extra 1 or 2 pellets may get you an extra rock on a Skeet range, but about all it does to a pheasant is lets them starve or hemorrhage to death.

Most of my pheasant hunting, and I've done a lot of it in my first 45 years of life was with a .410 and 12 ga. Some later years with a 20 and 28 ga. I really couldn't tell much difference in dead between the 12 ga and the 28 ga shot birds and the ranges were pretty much the same. Having a kickass heavy load pretty much just encourages folks, especially with an idea like yours, to shoot at birds that in reality are out of range. You just shoot and hope.

Ya I know, now and then you'll get one, but you'll miss and worse yet, just cripple more birds than you'll ever get at marginal ranges. A shotgun is a pretty sure killer with good pattern placement with either a 12 or 20 ga out to about 40 yd. maybe 45 yd. If you think you can tell the difference between 40 and 45 yd out in the field when shooting at pheasants, you're a better man than most, me included. When a pheasant is out of range for a 20 ga 7/8 oz load at 1220 fps, it is out of range for a 12 ga 1-1/4 oz load at 1335 fps too, give or take a couple yards.

You can push too much lead down a certain sized barrel, and 1 oz. 20 ga loads are at that point. Yup, folks do it, but I'd bet heavy coin that they could do just as well with 1220 fps 7/8 oz loads if they didn't know that was what they were shooting.

BP
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,476 Posts
:roll:

What? Now I have to go out and buy the 28 ga and the .410?

BP....come on now. I only just got the 12 and then the 20.

Next, you'll be telling me to Hunt the pheasants with a Pea shooter.

I prolly can't hit them either!

{Just kidding ole man. Sage counsel I am sure.}

/ :wink:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Most of my questions are of the curiosity area. I was only looking for suggestions in a 1300fps area. Many people have expressed their expertise in why my request of 1300fps is crazy. My examples were to show that 1350fps is a common factory load. And if this is so common, why aren't there some re-load recipe's out there of the same. No I'm not looking for a 1350 load just 1300 and what people are shooting in the 1300fps area. And the difference between longshot and 800X and different types of hulls. Maybe all I want to do is make field loads in 20g that are the same speed as 12g so I don't have to change my shooting style. And you guys should know that I have been shooting pheasants for over 40 years. And after 40 years of shooting I think that I am entitled to know a few things myself. But fully admit that I don't know everything. And that is why I'm asking questions. Sure I could buy the 1350fps loads-they are everywhere-fully endorsed by Pheasants forever. Heck the Pheasants forever logo is on every box. But I thought that I would like to have some fun making my own and saving a few bucks on the side. I'm sure that Federal has all sorts of fun graphs showing how these high velocity 1350fps shells are the best at killing birds. Far superior than the 1220 and 1175. And that higher speeds have a better kill ratio's and so on and so forth......... And also reasons why copper plated lead is far superior than the magnum lead and why magnum lead is better than just plane ol' lead. And why Bismuth is a better choice than steel shot too. But every type of shot kills birds and every speed shell kills birds. Why is one shot preferred over another? Why is speed preferred over another? It's all about one's preference, shooting style, money to spend, pattern and the desire to have a clean kill. There are many reasons why I'm looking at this speed and I'm not a sky blaster either. All I wanted to know from the experts here in this friendly forum was about 1300fps loads. And not to be ridiculed for my questions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,476 Posts
/

Sorry Buckey, my link did not come up right. So here:

Filters
(1) Gauge*
- All - 20 (2) Load Type
- Select - Lead Shot (3) Shot Weight (Oz.)
- All - 7/8 oz.1 oz.
(4) Shell*
- Select - 2 3/4" CHEDDITE PLASTIC SHELLS2 3/4" FEDERAL PLASTIC TARGET SHELLS2 3/4" FIOCCHI AND PMC PLASTIC TARGET SHELLS (LOW BASE WAD)2 3/4" REMINGTON RXP , PREMIER AND STS PLASTIC SHELLS2 3/4" WINCHESTER COMPRESSION - FORMED AA & HS TYPE PLASTIC SHELLS (5) Manufacturer:
- All - Hodgdon (6) Powder
- All - HS-6 [Hodgdon]HS-7 [Hodgdon][Hodgdon] Longshot

Shell: 2 3/4" REMINGTON RXP , PREMIER AND STS PLASTIC SHELLS

Load Type Gauge Shot Wt. Powder Primer Wad Powder Wt. (Gr.) Pressure Vel. (ft/s)

Lead Shot 20 1 oz. Longshot CCI 209M Rem. SP20 16.5 11,700 PSI 1165
Lead Shot 20 1 oz. Longshot CCI 209M WAA20F1 16.5 11,000 PSI 1165
Lead Shot 20 1 oz. Longshot Fed. 209A WAA20F1 15.9 11,200 PSI 1165
Lead Shot 20 1 oz. Longshot Fed. 209A WAA20F1 16.5 12,000 PSI 1220
Lead Shot 20 1 oz. Longshot Rem. 209P Rem. SP20 16 11,100 PSI 1165
Lead Shot 20 1 oz. Longshot Rem. 209P WAA20F1 15.9 10,900 PSI 1165
Lead Shot 20 1 oz. Longshot Rem. 209P WAA20F1 17.3 12,000 PSI 1220
Lead Shot 20 1 oz. Longshot Win. 209 Rem. SP20 16 10,400 PSI 1165
Lead Shot 20 1 oz. Longshot Win. 209 Rem. SP20 17.8 12,000 PSI 1220
Lead Shot 20 1 oz. Longshot Win. 209 WAA20F1 16.3 9,900 PSI 1165
Lead Shot 20 1 oz. Longshot Win. 209 WAA20F1 18 12,000 PSI 1220

NEVER EXCEED MAXIMUM LOADS

_____________________________________

Just in case you load any of these Buckeye, Hodgdon says that the WAA20F1 wad specified in these recipes, can be replaced with the RSP20S.

/
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top