The only information you need is "Buy condition and originality." A 1933 Super without both, or at least one, is worth about $300. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

 

lowgun, I'll take all the $300 prewar SP's you can find.

Dirtfarmer, Check for some details

What kind of trigger or triggers does it have? Twin-Single is a nice set up.
Barrel length?
Rib? Solid or vent?
Stock configuration?
Bore condition?
Lockup and opening lever position?
Exterior condition?
Barrel rib condition?

 

I admit that Supers without originality or condition are hard to buy for $300, but they are truly not of interest to collectors without one or both. Most prewar Supers are at least fairly unmolested and are very nice guns.

 

I don't have it yet, but it's on the way. It's a selective single trigger, 1933 Superposed with solid rib. The metal is in pretty good shape, the wood probably needs refinishing. It has a pad, which hurts it's collector value. It's a shooter with good LOP of 14 1/4", drop at comb, 1 1/2" and drop at heel of 2". Look forward to getting it in.

Dirtfarmer

 

That is an uncommon prewar Super, no $300 gun for sure. It is in wonderful condition and I would buy three like it. Congratulations. Let us know what you hear from the Browning historian about its provenance. It is worth the cost of a letter. Nearly all of my prewar guns had records indicating the original purchaser. The forearm appears to be a Lightning model forend but the solid rib points to a standard model. The letter will tell the tale. If it is truly a Lightning with solid rib, it should weigh about 7 pounds or an ounce or two more. If it is a standard with Lightning forend wood, it will weigh about 7 pounds 8 or 9 ounces. Not a lot of difference but the weight will tell what model you have. I don't know if I would refinish anything. The unique prewar wood finish is not easy to duplicate and it seems to be intact on your gun. A prewar Lightning with solid rib is a scarce variation. Most Lightnings of that period were ribless. Your serial number?

 

lowgun,

I think the serial number is in the 5,000 range. I don't have the gun yet, nor the exact number, but was told it was a 1933 model. Do you think I should not refinish the wood? Although I do pretty good work, I don't know about a pre-war finish. From the pictures it looks like the finish may have had added varnish, but I haven't examined it yet. I had conversed with Scotty on this wire and he's sending his early double trigger gun to Art's for restoration. I would appreciate any advice, etc.

BTW, what's the scoop on the Browning historian and letter?

Dirtfarmer

 

Here are three more pictures of the 1933 Superposed. I traded a Citori Lightning Sporting Grade I for this gun. I wasn't using the Sporting Clays gun and it was just sitting in the safe. This 1933 Superposed interests me a lot and at least for me, that was a good trade. If you look close, you can see the barrel selector in the trigger guard, just ahead of the trigger.

Dirtfarmer

 

You have the first generation single trigger. All I can tell you is that mine works. I would rather buy your gun for more than it's worth than to think that you would refinish that great wood. I don't know whether it has had finish added or not, but it is not supposed to look like any post war wood finish. Not many have even seen a prewar original wood finish. I am inclined to think yours may be original. I think the Browning historian contact information may be on their website.

 

Lowgun,

Thanks for you input. I'll probably wait before doing any work on this gun. I got into some controversy refinishing a pre war Ithaca 37 R. That gun had pretty good metal, but the stock was in terrible shape. It has some sap wood and nicks and chips were into the lighter colored sap wood. It looks much better now, but some on this forum were not happy with what I did. This gun is a different matter. It has value, whereas the Ithaca was and is a $250 gun with a Polychoke.

Dirtfarmer

 

This weekend, I saw the best 37R I have ever seen, and the price was $350 on the tag with offers solicited. It was 30" Full, original butt plate, about 98% condition. I was interested in another gun the fellow had and he would not deal for anything but greenbacks. I would have written a check for both guns, no price negotiation. A lesson learned about carrying cash. A 37R is a rare bird in high condition these days, as is a good prewar Super.

 

lowgun,

I just picked up the Superposed. It's as good as the pictures except there isn't much blue on the trigger guard and tang. It closes up tight and has strong ejectors. The top lever doesn't pass 90 degrees when closed. The finish isn't tacky, but you know how old, tired varnish looks and feels. It makes one want to use lindseed oil and some 0000 steel wool to clean it up without actually refinishing it. There appears to be some really nice wood under that old finish. I'm going to check with a friend who restores high grade English guns for a living.

The solid rib isn't completely line of sight like a current mfg vent rib, or even a vintage Ithaca 37 R rib, but has a slight bow or dip. There is an original looking ivory front bead, actually a half bead on a metal stand or frame and an ivory mid sight. The gun weighs almost 7# on a balance beam doctors scale. These scales are very accurate, but for 7# or so, I would like a scale that would be more specific for that weight range. It's definitely not 7#, 7-8 oz, more like 6#, 14-15 oz.

This guns comes up and handles wonderfully. It will be fast on a covey rise, or what ever. The drop at the heel is 2 1/4" which is what I would have preferred as apposed to the 2" measurement reported by the dealer when I asked for stock measurements. Drop at the comb is about 1 5/8" with a 14 1/4" LOP over a Decelerator pad (obviously not original). The barrel selector works and the single trigger in an inertia driven setup not unlike current production.

Any advice would be appriciated.

Dirtfarmer

 

You obviously have a very early Lightning model. What is the barrel length and serial number? Use Murphy's oil soap to clean the junk off the finish and do what you said with 0000 and linseed oil. That should do it. Let me know if you want to trade it off. I have a skeet Lightning in the 10,000 range, second generation single trigger, ribless, and a trap double single trigger gun in the 1,000 range. They both work fine. I like the old ones.

 

lowgun,

Number 53xx C. 28" mod/full.

I don't know why I didn't think of Murphy's Oil Soap, as I've used it before. Thanks for reminding me. I'll give it a shot.

There is an old antique furniture treatment, using a 1/3 White Vinegar, 1/3, Lindseed Oil, and 1/3 Turpentine mixture to go over old dark furniture with dirty, caked finishes using fine steel wool. It works great. That's the basic idea with the Murphy Oil Soap followed by pure boiled Lindseed Oil and 0000 steel wool. That should clean it up, bring out the grain, and preserve the original finish/75 year patina.

Can I clean out the dirty checkering, lightly using my checkering tools? It's black in the checkering grooves, probably from old finish and 75 yrs of dirt and grime.

Thanks,

Dirtfarmer

 

lowgun,

Unfortunately the finish is "orange peeled" and I can't do much with it. With the Murphy Oil Soap, I was able to clean some of it, but patches of finish came off, exposing raw wood. The good news is there is a drop dead beautiful piece of dark French Walnut under all that. I'm going to cut down past the orange peel and see if I can pick up some original finish to build back with.

Dirtfarmer

 

Dirtfarmer:

Nice Super. You may want to give Browning a call and talk to the historian. If you give him the serial # and tell him what the barrel address reads along with other markings he may be able to pin down the when/where it was sold.

The engraving pattern looks like a European grade 1. What's the barrel length and chokes? I had a 26" solid rib 2 bbl set that was configured much like your "new" shotgun and it was very quick. I hope you enjoy it for a long time.

Parris

 

Yeah, Parris, it looks like what is now referred to as the A1 Grade with the sculptured frame sides. It may have been a non-US import. It may not have Browning US marking on the barrel.

 

lowgun,

I'm at the office and the gun's at home, but I think it says Browning Arms Co., St. Louis, MO on the barrel. I'll check it again when I get home this PM.

Dirtfarmer

 

You guys are not going to believe this one.

I just got off the phone with the Browning historian. I left him a voice message with the data on the gun. He called me back, all excited, asking where I had gotten that gun. I told him and he asked, "Do you know who owned that gun." Seems this gun was shipped from Browning directly to a Capt. Askins, in Ames, OK, in 1932. The guns cost him $107. Evidently it was used by Askins, as he sent it back on two later occasions for service and maintenance. I asked the historian if he had met the Col. He hadn't and I was able to relate that I saw him at the NRA convention is New Orleans in the early 70's when I was in school down there. He was an average sized man, but walked with the demeanor and presence of the soldier that he was with the body language of a man not to be triffled with even though he was getting up in age.

Just thought you'd appreciate that bit of news. I sure did.

Even a blind hog occasionally finds an acorn...

Dirtfarmer

 

:!: :!: :!: WOW :!: Congrats and good for you. I hope that you get many many years of enjoyment out of your super. I could be wrong but Galazan may sell repro Hawkins pads if you want to go that way.

Parris

 

Thanks for the info on the vintage pad. That would be a less expensive way to go and would be more authentic. May check it out. You wouldn't believe the French Walnut under that old finish. When it's restored, I want to get pictures of the Colonel holding or shooting the gun, pictures of the restored gun, and the Browning factory letter all in an attractive disply for my office.

Dirtfarmer

 

parris,

I checked and Galazan does offer a Hawkins pad, just like what was on the gun when it was shipped. I think I'm going to do that instead of the leather covered pad. Thanks for that info.

Dirtfarmer

 

Just got back from the gunsmith and left the gun with him. After talking it over, he and I agree that the Hawkins pad was ugly back then and is no prettier now. We're going with a leather covered pad, which is vintage correct, just wasn't on this gun originally. Historical correctness is one thing, but history will just have to give way to good looks and class. The Colonel could have had a leather covered pad instead of the Hawkins.

Dirtfarmer

 

Dirtfarmer,

What a great find. I guess the $300 estimate is even funnier now as I look back at those posts....

I like leather covered pads too but the Hawkins aint that ugly:

Well, maybe it is but it still beats a Browning/Pachmayer POS.

Congrats on the great find, we'll look forward to pictures of the finished project.

Jeff

 

Jeff,

Those pads you show look good. The solid red one is very pretty, the other one I like, just not as much. The reproduction Hawkins that I saw on line as offered by Galazan has a ladder type pattern of parallel projections, not a latice pattern like yours. Check it out on line and let me know if this is the Hawkins we're talking about. In a lot of ways, I would like to go back with original equipment, but I do like the looks of a good leather covered pad.

Dirtfarmer

 

Dirt,

Must have been a brain fart.....as the pad I showed in my picture is not a Hawkins, it's the Galazan knock off of the original Silvers pad.

Galazan calls it thier "period correct pad". I have them on a couple of my Parkers and Auto-5's. I also use them as a base when I make a leather covered pad.

The Silvers was often used on high grade guns of that period. The Browning custom shop used Silvers pads on a number of original guns that I have seen, but I have also seen catalogs offering Hawkins and NoShok pads on new Brownings.

As you determined that the guns was sold originally with a Hawkins that's the only thing to use. If it's not going to be made "original" then you might as well put what you like on it and have a leather covered pad.

Jeff