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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After getting hooked by three quail hunts (using borrowed RRL 20and 28 ga guns) and a round of clays I'm looking to get my first gun. Started off looking for a 20 ga, thinking it most versatile for quail and clays.

Found and liked the Franchi Veloce, and got interested in the 20/28ga combo. Have also found a Beretta 686 combo 20/28, which seems to point better for me. And, found a nice used Weatherby Orion 20 which also points well.

I'm not hung up on getting the combo, so maybe the best way to look at it is from the 20 ga perspective alone.

The new Veloce 20 is about $1300 and the used Orion (high grade, English stock) is $1250. The new Beretta combo (686 S) is $2395, haven't done the shopping on the 20 ga Beretta alone.

Any compare/contrast comments on the relative qualities of these three guns would be appreciated, as well as opinions on the pricing.

Thanks!
 

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JMO, unless it is just something you want, I wouldn't think about the combo-----rather me thinking as I do, I would look towards a 12 and get 28 and .410 tubeset for it.

Versatile, nothing is more versatile than a 12. You can load it, or buy for it the same basic shell (7/8 @ 1200) that you would get in a 20, or load it down to 3/4 oz with little effort. Then have the small tubes to play with as you wish.
 

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Hi Jfon:
I have been going thru the same thing. Since you are relatively new, who knows what you'll end up doing. Get a 12 gauge - you can put in light loads for dove and quail, you can hunt pheasant, big loads for geese and other waterfowl, and handle all of the clay sports. Then, if a year from now you find out you are a "trap" guy or an "upland game hunter" you could get a designated gun if you so choose.

I am looking at the Browning Citori 525 Field o/u and the Beretta White Onyx o/u. I want a beautiful gun for my upland hunts. If I get into the clay sports, I might buy something else down the road. I make consider a semi as a back-up.

I used to have a Rem 1100 and a Winchester pump that got stolen during a move. I hunt occassionally with office guys and borrow guns. I had such a great time last month I decided to get back into it and the wife was surprisingly not resistant to my buying a nice gun for myself and a gun for my kids. (She even mentioned she would be interested in clay sports!!)

Shotgunworld has been a huge help - the guys are great. Frankly, I have to admit I even kind of like Maser - an underdog on this forum. Good luck!
G
 

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I like the .20 ga. I have 3, Verona O/U, Rem 100, Franchi 48 AL. If your looking at a combo, look at a Verona.20/.28 combo. Most importantly make sure it fits you. I love the looks of the Veloce, but It just doesn't fit me. If you get a gun that fits you will be more successful and will have more fun. I agree that a .12 ga is very versatile, but a .20 ga is a good beginning gun.
 

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Welcome t the world of hunting and shotgunning! Remember, no one gun will "do it all" so whatever you get first will be just that...the first of the guns you'll find a need for. :lol:

My name notwithstanding (hunter20ga) I'd agree that the 12 ga may well be the best place to start for an adult shooter unless there's reason the extra weight of a 12 ga is a true handicap. You can load a 12 down to do nearly anything a 16 or 20 can do. It's trickier to load a 20 "up to" maximum 12 ga loads.

Don't get me wrong...I love 20's (and 28"s are sweet, as well) but hunting seasons last only a fraction of the year, while clay pigeons can be shot most anytime. As a newer hunter/shooter I'd suggest that you spend as much time on the trap/skeet/sporting clays ranges as you can afford. Don't get disheartened if your shooting prowess increases rapidly at first, then plateaus at some point below what you want it to be!

A good used 12 ga o/u field grade Browning, Beretta or Ruger can be picked up for $700-1200. Field grade stocks are a bit of a handicap on the trap range, but you can still shoot a field grade gun very effectively. As time passes, if you find you really like the clay pigeon games, you'll want special guns for each. As far as hunting, when you've mastered the fine art of wingshooting you may find that the 20 or 28 a great addition to your stable.

Whatever route you follow, good luck and good shooting!
hunter20ga
 

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jfon,
Before you jump off and spend 1300 on your first gun, go to a local Academy store and check out a 20ga Yildiz O/U for 386.
Alot of gun for the money and it will do everything you are talking about. Look at one and you will be surprised.
Chris
 

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jfon said:
Have also found a Beretta 686 combo 20/28, which seems to point better for me.

The new Beretta combo (686 S) is $2395, haven't done the shopping on the 20 ga Beretta alone.
You can get them for a lot less then $2395. You should look at a used combo. I have seen them for $1800. Check out
www.gunsamreica.com
www.auctionarms.com
www.gunbroker.com

Also you might be better off getting a Beretta 686 SP 20g now and buy a 28g barrel for it later. You can send it up to Cole Guns (www.colegun.com) in New England and they can fit a 28g barrel to that gun for around $1000. This way you can get a 686 20g for between $1000 and $1400 (new or used) and send it to Cole later for the 28g.

This is what I am doing to do. Hope this helps!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Many thanks to all who have been generous with advice, both here and on the Beretta board. One thing about this website... people are very helpful and aren't just out there flamng each other and grinding axes.

Based on all the feedback, I'm now leaning away from the combo. Since my prime motive is quail hunting, with clays as a fun way to get better, I think I'm heading to the 20 ga gun. I doubt I'll ever go the waterfowl route, but if I get seriously hooked on clays I'll look for a 12 (by then my wife will be used to the idea of a gun in the house). If I want a light, quick 28 someday I'll look for one, but it really would be the "third" gun, not the first or second.

One thing is for sure... it sure is fun looking. Thanks again!
 

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I have both the 20 ga Veloce and a Beretta 686e 20 ga Sporting. I seldom shoot the Veloce, my daughter seems to have taken it over! I've given serious thought to getting a 28 ga barrel set for the 686e too, but I have a Rizzini 28 ga too and seems I shoot it more than the others combined. I also have a Model 12 in 20 ga as well as a 391 I almost never shoot. I like 20 ga but LOVE the 28! Yeldiz?? I suppose they may be ok, but I find it is difficult to get the quality you expect for $1350 for 1/3 the price from anybody. Tollerable?? Maybe, but I doubt it would be MY cup of tea! I looked long and hard at lots of guns before I bought the Veloce. It was what I wanted in fit, finish, quality, weight, and price. I saw some Huglus and Rugers as well as the other B guns, none rang my bell, especially the Huglu, WAY overpriced in MY opinion! Yes, they had the nerve to ask over $1400 for it. Pretty amaturish finish and engraving for that money!

BP
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
So, Burnt Powder... if you had to choose between a 20ga Veloce and a 20ga 686, which would you pick?

Another thought, to add to my confusion, is a 20ga Alcione. A bit heavier than the Veloce, but that would make it more comfortable for clays, I suppose.

I'm laid up after some foot surgery this morning and it's a pleasure to talk with you.

Thanks!
 

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jfon: i wasn't familiar with the Veloce so i googled it and found several models all on sale under 1,200 at Impact Guns. Beautiful looking guns, and I don't think 20 ga recoil will ever be a problem at the clays range when --not if-- you head in that direction. (Clay targets always in season, no bag limit, and they always come when you call.)
I shoot a lightweight Browning field grade gun in 12 ga, and although target shooting is about all I do, recoil has never been a problem. I'd definitely go 20 rather than 28 because of ammo prices and availability. You'll spend many times the price of the gun on ammo, so stick with either 20 or 12 til you know you're in it for the very long haul.
 

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jfon said:
The new Veloce 20 is about $1300 and the used Orion (high grade, English stock) is $1250. The new Beretta combo (686 S) is $2395, haven't done the shopping on the 20 ga Beretta alone.
Of the guns and prices listed here, I would select the Weatherby Orion.
 

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jfon;

Given I don't have to choose, I'll not part with either one. But in the field, the Veloce, hands down, on the range, the Beretta, hands down. The Beretta is a far more expensive gun to buy and is somewhat heavier and 30" barrels. Biggest reason though, I hate the automatic safety of the Veloce on the range, in the field it is a non issue! Both good shotguns! I'd buy both again!

BP
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Well, after even more looking (got to admit, being in the market is great), and some good advice which has helped me better understand gun fit, I'm now down to two 20 bores, the Beretta Silver Pigeon or a Browning Cynergy.

Both aim/point//fit equally well, and better than anything else I've picked up. As much as I like the Veloce, it just didn't fit well vs these.

Pros/cons: Both seem to fit equally well, and feel great in terms of balance and weight. I like the Beretta looks better, but only after going up the price line a bit to get past the glossy/plasticy wood. The Cynergy looks are, well... ahem... interesting. I like some elements of the design but not others. I like the function of the buttpad on the Browning, but it's a bit odd looking. When I boil things down, I'm leaning to the Cynergy based on lower price.

So, folks... any comments on the relative merits of the Silver Pigeon vs the Cynergy?

As always, many thanks for everyone's kindness in sharing your knowledge. And... though I'm told this is politically incorrect... Merry Christmas!
 

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I can vouch for the cynergy...you won`t be sorry. I`m waiting on a 28ga sporting with the old design recoil pad. Love the 12`s.
 

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Claysmoker;

Yes, I did dissable mine too. There is a piece of spring or piano wire that fits from the safety arm inside the reciever up through the back side or the standing breech and as the opening lever is pushed to the right, it slides back by a cam and inturn puts the gun back on SAFE. Once that wire is removed, it effectivly disables the auto safety. HOWEVER: With it removed the safe button and lever indide the action move easialy enough that under recoil, it slides back on safe after the first shot, don't even have to open the gun to do it. Now, that's a pain! :evil: I didn't want to destroy any part of the mechanism to disable the safe, in the unlikely event I may want to redo the auto feature. I suspect I could fabricate a clone wire and just grind it a little shorter so it doesn't hit the cam on the opening lever and the weight and or the kink for a firm sliding fit in the action would keep the safety off during recoil. But that looked like more trouble than I wanted to get into right then, so I just put the danged wire link back in and it is still an auto safety. Mostly my daughter shoots it now, so it is a non-issue for me now! In the field I really don't care anyhow!

BP
 
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