[Guest]

Ok, first post, so if I touch on anything that has been covered before, sorry.
I am a pistol man, and always have been, but a few weeks ago, a friend let me put a few rounds (shells) through his Benelli M1 S90. What can I say, I was hooked. I need to add a shotgun to my collection.
I would love to get one like his, but I don't really have the $$$ on hand for that, so I started to look around. I have found two that might fit the bill for me. One is a used Win1300 Defender in 20 ga. for $250., and the other is a new Mossy 590DA w/ ghostring sights for $350.
I am leaning to the Winchester because of price (yes, I'm a cheap one), but would 20ga. be sufficient for defense? Should I cough up the extra $100. for the Mossy?
Also, I have to be honest, while I did love shooting the 12ga., my shoulder was hurtin after 25 or so shells. I am sure I would adjust to it, but maybe a 20ga. would be better?
Any input or thoughts would be great. Thanks in advance to all.

 

[Sidearmor]

Caliber is really a non-issue when it comes to home defense and shotguns. Any shotgun is going to tear up an intruder.

Some things to keep in mind with the two selections you have listed:

The variety of factory 12 gauge is more appealing to most. It is often less expensive than 20 ga. This could end up saving you a lot in the long run.

Train train train. Don't let this gun sit under your bed and collect dust. You need to take it out and become one with it. Keep this in mind, as you don't need to go out and shoot 200 rounds every week, but it is important that you get something that you are going to want to shoot.

Versitility. Do you plan to hunt? The 1300 offers some longer barrel options that the 590A1 does not. While I am a huge fan of the 590A1, the Winchester 1300 Defender that I have has kept up with the Mossberg all the way. Both are great guns.

So, what's the solution? Hell if I know! Go with your gut. Both calibers are more than capable of taking out a human target. Pick the one you think you will shoot the best and run with it.

Happy shotgunning!

 

[JMCCOYB]

INHO 20 ga is very adequate for HD. Also, it is easier to get used to for most people than a 12ga.

You may want to review some of the comments under the suject "is 410 adequate for HD?" . some good suggestions are made.

Re your two options. I agree that more important between the two is to practice, practice, practice with whichever one suits YOU the best. Kind of liike sex--the more you practice the better you get.

I would not let the price between 250 and 350 deter me on choosing a shotgun to protect me, my loved ones and my things. Hope you never use it (other than practice) but DO not let 100.00 be the deciding factor.

Good luck, let us know what you decide and why! JB

 

[Guest]

I agree that more important between the two is to practice, practice, practice with whichever one suits YOU the best. Kind of liike sex--the more you practice the better you get.

:lol:

You said it. I hit the range at least once a week with my main carry gun (a Walther P99) and I almost always get someone who looks over and says "a 9mm??? You should get a .45 for stopping power!" At that point, I ask them to take a look at my target.
I have always been of the opinion that proficiency with a weapon is key. When I do get one of these weapons, I will be putting it through it's paces on a regular basis.
As for which one, hell, I still don't know, but if ammo is easier and cheaper for the 12ga., that may be the way to go. I don't hunt, so that's not an issue.
Also, I did take a look at the ported barrels, and they look nice. Kinda like the new Glock "C's". Can that be done by a local gunsmith? Do I need to go through that web site? I do have a Dremmel ...hmmm.. :twisted:
Thanks to both of you, I will keep you updated on which one I purchase.

 

[JMCCOYB]

Ported bbls on a Win 1300 or Moss 590???? Your kidding!?

Or did you mean on the Benelli that you shot?

"Do your own with a Dremmel?" You have got to be jerking serious chain here!

Don't even think about it! Seriously, NO, NO, NO, NO!

You sound like a shooter to me, and there is aboslutely no need (even it done by a pro gunny) for ports on a HD shotgun.
Besides that, porting the bbl by a pro will run you that $100 that you are concerned about. Just NO!

 

[Guest]

...I almost always get someone who looks over and says "a 9mm??? You should get a .45 for stopping power!" At that point, I ask them to take a look at my target.
I have always been of the opinion that proficiency with a weapon is key.

I know the feeling. When they see daylight where the Head/Centermass after shooting 25-35ft. The doubters tend to back off about then.

The main reason that everyone flocks to the 12ga, because it has always been taught that Police and Military use 12ga. The reason is a little less important in Home Defense. The way I understand it is that the Police and Military use 12ga, because all of the other military powers that use shotguns use 12ga. If American troops get stranded behind enemy lines, they can find ammunition easily. Police follow the same example for pretty much the same reason. This is what I have always been taught.

With Home Defense you don't have to worry about running out of ammunition and having to hunt for an easy target to steal shells off of... I don't see a major problem with 20ga, though I prefer 12ga. That's what I've learned to shoot. that's what I recommend.

As for the DIY Porting.....don't even think about it. Very bad idea. Plain and simple. That's basically a directed backblast system. Besides ruining the barrel, you could very possibly totally mess up the balancing of the recoil, and send you're aim off worse.

 

[Guest]

I was looking at the VangComp Mossy. Someone had mentioned it in another post, and I looked at the web page. Looked like nice work, but far too much money.
As I said, I have little (read:NO) experience with shotguns, but porting is starting to become more common in pistols as well, with the Glock C models. The "C" stands for "compensator", but all they are is a standard ported barrels. They are supposed to reduce recoil and barrel flip. I have yet to fire one myself, but I have heard mostly good things so far. Just a thought. From the looks of the pics, it looked like a skilled gumsmith could do it. As I said, just a thought.
As for taking my Dremmel to it, yes, that was a joke. I would NEVER have the hand control to do fine work like that. You would need a drill press!!(again, j/k). You would be shocked to see what I have used my Dremmel on though. Great little tool.

But anyway, back on topic. I was looking at ammo, to get an idea on how much I would be spending if I say shot about 20 or so shells every other week. I jumped over to Cheaper than Dirt just to get an idea of cost on 20 vs. 12ga.. Sidearmor made some great points, so I went to look into it. Silly me. I thought pistol ammo could get screwy with FMJ, JHP, SJHP.....bla bla.
I really have no idea with type of shells I should be looking at here. Is there a good "apples to apples" comparison I could look at cost wise? Also, when range shooting my pistols, I generally use standard FMJ due to cost, but I always load JHP after. I rarely shoot JHP at the range because I can't justify $14.00 Cor-Bons (20 rounds) to punch holes in paper when I can get 100 rounds of FMJ for about $10.
Are shotguns the same way? Do you tend to use cheaper "target loads" for punching paper, and save the good stuff for (God forbid) the BG?
I am sorry if I am running at the mouth(keyboard), and I do thank all of you for your advice.

 

[sonde330]

For apples to apples ammo comparison you are going to want to look at #1 buckshot or 00 buckshot. Law enforcement and military often use 00 buck but I have read over and over again that #1 buck is the best load for HD. I use #1 buck myself. The problem with practicing with cheap trap or bird loads and then switching to your true HD load afterward is that they are radically different. The shot pattern you get with trap is going to be much different. The pellet spread and number of pellets are radically different as well. There are only 9 pellets in a 00 buck load. Even though they are more expensive I would practice with what you are going to use especially if you are going to shoot paper targets. If you shoot at clay pidgeons for practice, then trap loads are fine. If you can hit a clay pidgeon with a HD shotgun then you most certainly can hit a bad guy.

 

[Sander]

Hey Mr. Pickles,

Welcome to the World of the Scattergun...

I'm a bit like you: after having been a total handgun guy, I rented an old 12-gauge Winchester pump just for fun. Gave me a headache and a sore shoulder, but I was hooked, too.

Eventually I got my own Vang Mossberg 590A1 and I just took it through a tactical shotgun class a couple weeks back. I have to admit, I now consider that my primary weapon with the SIG as backup (is that blasphemy?) :twisted:

In the world of tactical shotguns, a Mossberg with Ghost Rings is right up there with the best of them. I've heard, though, that the double action version, like the one you're considering, is not very popular because the trigger, although designed to be heavy, is a bit too heavy.

You also had a question about shotshells. I agree that the varieties of pistol ammo pale in comparison to the spectrum of shotshells. There's a lot going on in that little plastic container...

If I were you, I'd use Federal Classic Low-Recoil 00 Buckshot (#H13200). I buy mine for $2.98 for a box of 5 at www.gunfinder.net. No shipping if you buy at least one case. A case would cost you about $150, and if you only shot 20 every other week like you said, it would last you about 6 months. (Though I doubt you'll be able to limit yourself to just 20 per session!)

The great thing is you can use them both for range practice and as your HD load. It has 9 double-ought pellets in there, but leaves the muzzle at around 1100 fps, which is quite a bit lower than most full load buckshot, but still more than enough for defense.

 

[Guest]

I have to admit, I now consider that my primary weapon with the SIG as backup (is that blasphemy?) :twisted:.

Yes, that is. :wink:

But some great info from all of you. I really do appreciate all of it. I still have to make up my mind, but I plan on picking up one of them this weekend.

 

[Guest]

hey force =mass times velocity squared....check out a 1 oz. 20 ga missle at 1350 ft/sec!....vs 9mm rd at approx same velocity....either 12 or 20 ga. is devastating t probable 7-15 yds.IFFF..U CAN HIT THE TARGET.

 

[stlkid]

if your worring about the mossberg hurting your shoulder, when you go to shoot for fun just buy some light loads like federals 100 round boxes and bass pro, i can shoot my 12ga all day. wearing a thick shirt also helps and sense its winter now im sure that wont be a problem.

 

[murphy'slaw]

Murphy here-
Go with what you feel comfortable with. If you can't take it coming from a 12 go with the 20, no big deal. Your gun will do you absolutly no good if it is stored away and you never take it to the range because you will be sore the next day. There is no shame in using what works for you.

Merry Christmas

 

[Guest]

mrPickles-I have a P99 also. Wonderful gun, I'm thinking of buying another as a safe queen.

Just remember that when it comes to your practice ammo and your carry ammo, the POA/POI will differ between the two, as will the groups. You should still run at least 150rds of whatever you're going to load it up with for SD. That headshot you're making with the $10 box of FMJ might be totally off mark with your CorBons. Just a heads up...

ps-I load my Benelli Nova special purpose with Federal Low Recoil 00 buck :twisted:

 

[WideOpen]

About 2 months ago I was asking and looking at the same things. What I decided was 20 gauge because of a medical condition, I have arthritis in my chest so there is no way I can fire a 20 gauge and I believe in shooting what I hopefully will never have to use but will be prepared if needed. I bought a new 1300 Defender, 20 GA for $275 so $250 for a used seems a little high but it also depends on location. I'm in NC. The other reason was because it was also for my wife and I wanted her to be comfortable shooting it. In most cases if you come home with a black and blue shoulder you're not going to look forward to returning. Speaking of which, off to the range with the misses. Good luck, let us know what you decide.

TS

 

[sgtdw]

I would stay with the 12 gauge over the 20 any time. Shells are more readily available, shot size and slug style easily found at most locations. Don't get me wrong I love the 20 and have quite a few in that caliber, but for serious work I'll take the 12.

 

[Guest]

12 ***** or nuttin

 

[combat effective]

Either or. You won't go wrong with either.

 

[asmith5]

I believe that either would do the job. Both of them will do a tremendous amount of damage at the close ranges you would see in your home. I chose a 20 gauge because I wanted a gun that my wife could handle. She has no interest in it, but it won't punish her as much should she ever need to use it. Shotguns produce a pretty big punch at close range. I have a single shot .410 that I would not hesitate to use as a backup.

FInd a gun that you feel comfortable with. A 20 gauge that you can easily handle is going to be much more effective than a 12 gauge that you are not as comfortable with, or makes you flinch every time you pull the trigger.

You will receive lots of opinions here. Choose the option that you are most comfortable with. My HD shotgun is a $219 Mossy 500. I have little doubt that it will do the job.

Andrew

 

[Guest]

when it comes to home defense, you want a 12 *****, 18inch barrel. nobody should try to invade your home without being in serious trouble