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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anybody have a good 3/4 oz or less (5/8 oz) load for the 20 ga.

I have a Beretta SPII 20 ga. just sitting in the gunsafe that I don't shoot anymore. I want to get it out an shoot it with some light loads.

Basically what I looking for is a light 28 ga. load to shoot in the 20.

Thanks.
 

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Here's the load I'm using now:

20 ga. AA-HS hull (Rem. Game Loads work, too)
11/16 oz. No. 9 shot
13.4 gr. International (stock No. 21 MEC bushing)
W209 primer (or Remington)
WAA20 wad

That genuine WAA20 wad is the key to decent crimps. Other wads won't work.

Don't go as low as 5/8 oz. of shot. Crimps won't be good. But I use a 5/8 oz. bar for 28 gauge loads.

I haven't chronographed that load yet, but I've broken a lot of targets with it.
 

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Case, those ought to be rockets! I'm using 12.5 grains of International and it does just fine. It takes a little more to cycle my 11-87 though. I use about 13.1 for it.
 

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Hmmm... Then I'll probably end up using a No. 20 bushing after I test these things.

No sense wasting powder on unnecessary velocity.

BTW, Don, Claysmoker's the one who put me onto that "new" WAA20 wad and I'll be forever grateful to him for it. It would never have occurred to me to use it for light 20 loads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks guys,

Case, why can't you go with a 5/8 oz. shot drop, besides dished in crimps? Could a filler be used perhaps? Could you use, or is there, a bulker powder that could be used?

Looks like if you can go down to a 3/4 oz load in the 12, you ought to be able to go to a 5/8 oz. in the 20, without too many problems.

Am I thinking to much extremes here?

Oh, by the way Case, I reloaded 25 of the 5/8 oz. loads for the 28 ga., an shot them last weekend. Could NOT tell any differences in the breaks between them an the 3/4 oz. loads. Recoil was about like a 1300 fps .410 sporting load. NICE.... :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Case, what do mean by the "new" WAA20? New packaging, new wad, what?

What do I look for, just the regular WAA 20 wads? Is it the same old wad that been on the market?
 

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EyeMissum said:
Case, why can't you go with a 5/8 oz. shot drop, besides dished in crimps? Could a filler be used perhaps? Could you use, or is there, a bulker powder that could be used?

Looks like if you can go down to a 3/4 oz load in the 12, you ought to be able to go to a 5/8 oz. in the 20, without too many problems.

Am I thinking to much extremes here?
Yeah, probably. These things have practical limits, virtually all of which are determined solely by availability of a workable wad.

The wad's the key to the whole light-shot program.

12 gauge: 3/4 oz. = true 328.125 grains; bar drops an average of 315 gr. WAA12L or CB0178-12 clone.
20 gauge: 11/16 oz. = true 300.78 gr.; bar drops just about that. "New" WAA20.
28 gauge: 5/8 oz. = true 273.44 gr.; bar actually drops about 380 gr. CB5034-28HS. Other wads won't work.

And of course you can always add some kind of filler to any shot charge but it's a PITA and not really worth the effort when those work so well.

I reloaded 25 of the 5/8 oz. loads for the 28 ga., an shot them last weekend. Could NOT tell any differences in the breaks between them an the 3/4 oz. loads. Recoil was about like a 1300 fps .410 sporting load. NICE.... :lol:
I love that load -- and especially because it just happened to work successfully with a stock bar and bushing and the CB5034-28HS wad.

No need to alter or dork around with anything.

what do mean by the "new" WAA20? New packaging, new wad, what?

What do I look for, just the regular WAA 20 wads? Is it the same old wad that been on the market?
It's just Winchester's current WAA20 wad.

I think it was changed from the original to accommodate the new HS hull.
 

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Don,

Stop by Mike's on Mack Rd. He's got'em for $4.10 per bag of 250.

I use:

Rem Game Load hull (6pt crimp)
15.4 Unique (#23 MEC bushing)
WAA20 wad (from Mike's) Virtually no wad pressure
W209
310gr #9 chilled (from a modified 3/4oz bar)

No idea of velocity... :roll:
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Bud, are you loading a 3/4 oz. or a 5/8 oz. load in the 20.
 

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More than 11/16. Less than 3/4. 310gr.
 

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I'm with claysmoker. 12.5 grains of international is a nice load in a o/u. Try stick with the AA wads, even the claybuster copies are slightly deeper.
 

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I just came in from trying some 3/4 oz 20 gauge. original AA hulls. (I don't think I have any of the HS hulls in 20 yet). I used the MEC 20 bushing, International, 3/4 oz MEC bar, #9 shot, and the "new" WAA 20 wad. No wad pressure and a quick adjustment to the cam and they close perfectly. Thanks guys. I have not shot them or weighed the drops yet to see exactly what I am throwing, but they do close up nice.

In regards to the "new" AA wad: I ordered 2 bags of them. I got one of the new wads out and one of the "old" wads that I have had since long before the HS hulls came out. The wads are exactly the same size in all dimensions. But there is a difference. The bottom edge of the "new" wads have a very slight bevel on the lip, I presume to assure that it does not catch on the edge of the inserted base in the new HS hull. That is the only difference I can find. I will go ahead and use up the old ones in the old AA hulls.
 

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That's interesting, Bill.

I haven't bought any WAA20 wads in years and in those days I wasn't trying to load 3/4 oz. So I just assumed there might be some difference because of the new HS hull.

I guarantee you there's a BIG difference in the WAA20 and the Orange Duster 20, the bottom of whose shot cup sits a good 1/8" lower than the WAA20 and just flat doesn't work with 3/4 oz. of shot. The crimp dishes in so much no adjustment of the press will fix it.

Don't have any of Claybuster's CB1078-20s so I can't compare them.

Be nice if they'd work, since they're about $7 a case cheaper than the Winchesters.
 

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Bill M., Compare those again. The shot cup on the new one is not as deep as on the old one. Until you mentioned it, I hadn't noticed the bevel on the base. I've been using the old ones up in some older Remington hulls. The crimps are dished, and the shells sound like baby rattles, but the shot doesn't fall out and they shoot just fine. I broke a 23 and a 24 with them yesterday. They won't help keep you from stopping a swing.

It would be interesting to see if Claybuster has changed to follow Winchester. Apparently Duster hasn't.

Oh, Case, You are welcome, but certainly not indebted. Heck, I owe you! You've provided a wealth of info to me and others here. I found out about the "new" AA from a guy on another website. He went by the name Samuel Hoggson, but who knows what his real name is.
 

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From the recent 3/4oz 12ga thread.

WAA20 beside an Orange Duster

With the 310gr I'm loading, the crimps are fine with the wad sitting on top of the powder with minimal, if really any wad pressure. When I see the wad pressure gauge start to move, I stop the pressure.

I've used it in AA hulls, (mostly) Rem Gameload hulls, Gun Club hulls, and STS/Premier hulls. No problems with crimps with a little adjustments when changing hulls.
 

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It's just amazing what one finds in his rat's nest when he starts picking through it, and in this case three brand new bags of the old WAA20 wads and a partial bag of the CB1078-20, both of which I was sure I didn't have.

They're at least 10 to 15 years old.

The photos are pretty much self-explanatory, but they show conclusively that the "new" WAA20 wad is just that and differs greatly from the others.

The bottom of its shot cup is markedly higher than all the others and that's what helps the crimp of an 11/16 oz. shot load. But I'm pretty sure the old WAA20 would work with 3/4 oz.

The Claybuster's shot cup bottom is MUCH lower and might not work even with 3/4 oz. The Duster didn't work for me with 11/16 oz. but might with 3/4 oz.

The bottoms of all the shot cups except the new WAA20 are pretty close in height.

I'm still fairly certain the radius was added to the bottom of the new WAA20 to accommodate that basewad sleeve in the AA-HS hull.

They don't look it exactly, but the wads were all photographed alongside each other on a flat surface and the slight distortion is the result of the extreme closeup (and possibly my ineptitude as a studio photographer).



 

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Bill M.

If you compare Case's photo to mine, the newer wad has a shorter basewad. The old AA, CB clone, and Orange Duster have higher basewads.

Good photo Case.

It's hard getting a good angle and focus to show all those wads and their size comparison. Especially the close-up. Good showing of the bevel.
 

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Actually, the new WAA20 is quite a departure from the others.

Its base (over-powder cup) is considerably shorter, its legs are much longer and its shot cup petals are shorter.
 

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Dang! That is pretty slick photography. This digital age impresses my simple mind. Where do you post your pictures to insert into here?
 
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