BTW, I'm not talking person-to-person defense, I'm specifically talking about snakes, etc.

Todd

 

I shot one that was a .45-70/.410....well, I shot the .410, it wasnt bad. I saw the huge reaction when one of the guys shot a .45-70 through it and how blood red his palm was and decided that wasn't for me... :wink:

 

Can't a 45 Long Colt be shot out of that same handgun? The .410/45LC? Or am I imagining things again?

Andy

 

I have never fired a 410 version, but I have fired a 12ga version and even my Mossberg 500 with the pistol grip single handed...I thought my SW 500 was worse, and honestly, the 12 ga pistol reminded me of my 44mag Blackhawk.
A friend of mine has two like you are talking about, and he swears by them, altho I have never been around when its convienent to ask to go shoot one off.
Recoil to me is relative...what do you consider to be excessive and what are you willing to tolerate?

 

Well, I'm not too concerned about recoil except for the fact that this gun has a small grip, similar in design to most derringers. I was wondering how hard it would be to actually hold on to it when you shot a .410 shell from it. And yes, it is a 410/.45, but I figured .45 might be too much to shoot out of it.

Do you think a little 22mag derringer or something similar would be better?

BTW, if .410 buckshot or a slug were fired out of it, I presume that it would have too little barrel for it to stabilize. Am I correct on this? I think this little gun had a 8-10" barrel or so.

Todd

 

I carry a P90 45 and my wife carries a Taurus 38 UltraLite.
Before I spent $100 on something that you are not sure on, and personally, if you NEED it, theer is a good chance you might need more than one or two shots, then get a small 38 or even a Bersa 380.
Our gun store used to carry a little 5 shot, 22LR pistol, if you want to call it that, and it literally could be a keychain fob.
I want something thats not gonna piss the guy off if the need to fire should arise..I want something thats gonna reach out, and say hello in a way that he will not want to move till the cops get there, or if need be, the guys with black bags.
I know more deaths happen with 22s, but still, if intimidation is the key, a derringer isnt it.

 

Intimidation is not the approach any gun owner should work under.
If you pull it in Texas, you better fire it. Otherwise you'll get charged with brazening a weapon.

Gramps

 

http://www.thunder5.com

This looks like an interesting 410/45Colt handgun. A bit pricy but it would be very interesting handgun. Wonder how a round of skeet would good with it. :-D

mcb

 

hey man, if the derringer is black and kinda looks like pot metal STEER CLEAR! Those guns are made in Japan if i'm not mistaken. I had two and after about half a dozen shots one failed to fire and the other the barrel weld (it was a sxs 45/.410) broke. they are supreme junk if you ask me. attached is the one i'm talking about

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/i ... o=8&tt=150

 

Check out a .410\45 derringer called texas defender, it is made by waco arms, I think. It is built like a sherman tank.
As far as a .22 goes, you may want to look at north america arms .22mag 5shot. I owned one and it is very well made.

 

Check out a .410\45 derringer called texas defender, it is made by waco arms, I think. It is built like a sherman tank.
As far as a .22 goes, you may want to look at north america arms .22mag 5shot. I owned one and it is very well made.

 

hey man, if the derringer is black and kinda looks like pot metal STEER CLEAR! Those guns are made in Japan if i'm not mistaken. I had two and after about half a dozen shots one failed to fire and the other the barrel weld (it was a sxs 45/.410) broke. they are supreme junk if you ask me. attached is the one i'm talking about

I have on of those in the safe a relative gave somebody five bucks for it then gave it to me cause I like strange crap. I would not shoot that thing to save my life! I also have a few of the Cobra .38 derringers, bought new junk to say the least. All of them fail to fire one of the bbls on regular occasion.
For derringers from now on Bond is the only one I would consider.

I do not own one but when the time comes for purchase another derringer I will be getting on of these.

The owner is a nice guy I spoke with him at length a few years ago when I was looking for a job. Spent an hour discussing guns and stuff. He returned my call after I sent a cold call email about engineer openings....He called to say thanks for considering his company but at the time they could not afford to add another person to the force.
One great seeming guy that really believes in his product from the conversation I had with him.
Johnboy
Here is a link to the website for bond.

http://www.bondarms.com/

 

BoneDigger...

You said you were looking for a pistol for your truck for snakes. If you have your heart set on a .410 pistol so-be-it. But you might also consider a 38 revolver with shotshells. Plus it wont kick as hard.

 

Thanks for all of the responses guys! I think I am going to let this one slide. I might go ahead and get a 380 or something similar ion the next few months, but it sounds like the .410 route isn't a good one. At first glance, it SEEMED like it would be a good deal, but I've reconsidered based on the posts here. Thanks again.

They had a little Bersa 380 that looked interesting, but it was around $250. May have to save a while for that. I used to have a little Ruger Single Six that shot 22 LR and Mag., but that was long ago.

Todd

 

First: Recoil of a .410 in a handgun is about like the recoil from a .44 magnum, with stock loadings. Considerably snappier than a .45 LC or .45 ACP, but not as bad as a .454 Casull.

I've shot them all. My .410 shot gun is a "snake charmer", which has such a short stock that I hold it like a handgun; it has a thumbhole stock that I use like a pistol grip, with my second hand on the forearm right in front of the trigger.

Why? Look at the amount of energy a .410 throws forward: Typically about 700 ft-lbs. About the same as typical factory ammo, much more than typical .45 LC or .45 ACP factory loadings (which hover from 250 ft-lbs for Cowboy loads to 450 ft-lbs), but much less than typical .454 Casull at over 1000 ft-lbs (and going up to insane values, like 1600 ft-lbs for some Corbon or Hornady or Buffalo Bore ammo). To make this into a fair comparison, you have to shoot the .410 shotshell in a gun that weighs about as much as a typical handgun. My snake charmer qualifies there (about 2 lbs or so). Clearly, if you are shooting the .410 shell from a shotgun that weighs 7 or 8 lbs (like a big 12-gauge tactical shotgun with all manner of accessories), much of the recoil will be soaked up by the weight of the gun.

Second: I specifically bought the snake charmer .410 shotgun as a defense weapon against snakes, and similar varmint issues (like a big rat or such). I've now decided that this is the wrong weapon for this kind of use, because (a) the .410 shotgun is already too powerful, loud and dangerous for use in close quarters, and (b) the snake charmer is a cheaply made, unreliable and not very durable gun. I now have two handguns (one each in caliber .22 LR and .45 ACP), and I would always use shotshells in a handgun for snake / rat defense instead. Just this weekend I tested .45 ACP shotshells in my H&K USP, and they cycle the action perfectly, have a reasonable pattern size for close-quarter use (about 1' diameter pattern at 7 yards, much smaller than the shotgun, and more appropriate for rat / snake defense), and you are also left with a versatile high-quality gun. Shooting shotshells in the .22 revolver also works, but supposedly they don't cycle .22 semi-autos (never tried this myself), and the amount of lead thrown out the front is so minuscule, you have to be within a few feet of the target to have any chance of "making an impact". After 7 yards, the pellets from a .22 shotshell don't even go through the thin cardboard that paper targets are made of!

If someone wanted a snake / rat weapon, based on my experience, I would recommend that they start shooting a revolver or a semi-auto pistols, in calibers .357/.38, 9mm, .45 or larger, and then buy the one they are most comfortable with, and then outfit themselves with shotshells for that gun. If the choice is a semi-auto, try to verify before buying it that it will cycle with shotshells.

If you look at the CCI website, you'll find that shotshells are available in most common handgun calibers (at least in .357/.38, 9mm, .45 ACP, .45 LC, and .44 magnum/special).

 

I've always found a nice long pole to be plenty of defense against snakes. I'm no bunny hugger, though and I respect that not everyone feels the way I do about the critters... There is also such a thing as nuissance snakes but again, not everyone here (obviously) respects my way of dealing with them.

I second the notion of a 38 or 357. SW's Airweight and it's ilk are light and small, though certainly not derringer-size. They're also more expensive, but if you don't pop for the superlight models they're reasonable. 5 shots (or 4 depending on your preference for loading / carry), you might want 2-3 snake shot and perhaps 2 HP's for 'other' game. Just don't forget they're there....

 

JMHO-

Shooting a 410 in a snake charmer, mossberg etc. with pistol grip, etc is an entirely different world than these "little" derringers.

Shooting a 22LR derringer is considerably different than shooting a Jennings or other small 22.

The way the grip is shaped it has a tendency (actually more than just a tendency) to roll back. Making it hard to manage. The design was for short - very personal - close range use. Given the larger size of the shot from a 410 - there is even more "rolling" i.e. recoil. I would personally consider this as unusable.

For the same function - i.e. snake pest control, I use a 38 Special derringer with CCI shot loads or some special handloads I've made up - which have proved very effective.

 

Thanks for the advice guys. All being said, I think this would be a bad purchase. So, I am holding out for something more useable. Just a small single action Ruger or something would probably work. And they are not overly expensive.

Todd

 

Can't a 45 Long Colt be shot out of that same handgun? The .410/45LC? Or am I imagining things again?

Andy

no your right, the only thing is, you will blow your barrel up with a 45 colt.

 

Many modern Derringer-style handguns are made for and labeled .45/.410. I’d stick with American Derringer or Bond Arms. Stay away from pretty much anything under $250.

To the OP… the .410 loads are very manageable In buckshot and specialty defense loads. Birdshot would not be a problem at all.

 

Some guns are pressure-proof for 45LC - however they're marked as such.

 

The TC Contender comes to mind - a 45 LC barrel with the "choke" adapter for 410's

 

I think the guys who are recommending the .38 Special shot loads are right on target. The CCI loads will kill a snake at 6 feet. I can break about 2 out of 3 skeet from station #8 with those shells. I have found that their performance varies depending on the gun that they are fired in. I get the best "patterns" from a 4" S&W 686.

Clemson

 

Those derringers are actually rifled and labeled as 45 Long Colt/410. This is to keep them classified as a pistol and not a sawed off shotgun. The Snake Charmer is a shotgun with 18" barrel and required overall length, that is why it has a short stock after the pistol grip.

I worked my way down from a Snake Charmer looking for a compact stainless steel gun to dispatch sharks. American Derringer came out with the 45 Long Colt/410 after I had picked up the SC, since I already had the 410 slugs and other 410 ammo I got one. I think I only shot one 2 1/2" bird shot shell and the gun stung like hell and almost flew out of my hand.

I finally settled on a 357/38 Special American Derringer but only shoot 38 wad-cutters, which work fine. Carried it on an New Mexico Antelope hunt with 38 Special shotshells but saw no snakes.

 

I can break about 2 out of 3 skeet from station #8 with those shells.

Superb idea. Next time I go skeet shooting, I'll bring my H&K USP, loaded with CCI .45 ACP shotshells. Do you think the other shooters would die laughing? Or would they eject me from the range?

Owning both a snake charmer and a .45, and having tried my hand at trap shooting with the snake charmer (it amazingly enough actually works, although not well), and since the width of the shot pattern from the 6" barrel of my pistol is "only" about twice as big as from the snake charmer, this is not totally crazy - but pretty darn close.

 

Do you think the other shooters would die laughing? Or would they eject me from the range?

Actually, the first time I tried this stunt was at a Law Enforcement outing. We hold the event annually, now, and the cops insist on the skeet shooting trick every year. I tried a .45 a couple of years ago, but my gun was not effective on the clay birds. The 686 does throw a decent enough pattern to hit the birds at that center station. The distance is within range, and it is, surprisingly, no more difficult with the revolver than with the shotgun once you get the timing down.

You had better tell your range officers what you are doing ahead of time. They would not take kindly to someone shooting 230 grain hardball into the air, and if they have not been reassured about your load, they would certainly think that you were.

Clemson

 

ur probably thinking of the "thunder five" thats a very good gun especially for home defense its small yet has the power of a shotgun but if ur going 2 get it for 100 bucks i'd have it checked out cause they usually sell for about 600 bucks but if its in good working order then go for it