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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, It's been mentioned of loading 12 g hulls with 5/8 oz load but the ones I've tried with HS hulls, red dot, Claybusters WAA12L replacement & W209 do not fill completely. Does anyone have a good recipe that fill correctly? :?:
 

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Rich, you will need a filler disc below the shot. Some guys put cheerio's or all sorts of nonsense in there to take up space. The dumbest thing I've heard on this site is a spent primer!
I make a disc that you stick in the shot cup before you start loading that takes up space so the shot will fill the cup properly. It also cushions the shot to reduce shot deformation.And thirdly the material helps reduce felt recoil because they are soft. Don't worry though the shot doesn't imbed itself into the disc. There is no hassle with them poping out during the reloading process because they actually adhere to the wad. There are some guys on this site that have tried them. Maybe they will chime in on this and let us know how they liked them. I plan to sell them but I'm still trying to see if enough people want them.
 

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Rich.
There is no wad in existance that's compatable with a 5/8 oz. shot load, without using a filler to achieve enough fill inside the case to achieve good crimps in a 12 ga. hull.

Any load of less than 3/4 oz. shot will have the same problem in the 12 gauge.

Additionally, in my opinion, that's going too far in the 12 ga. Any load of less than 3/4 oz, of shot, belongs in a smaller gauge gun than the 12 ga. Just isn't practical.

I've seen the wads mentioned in the above post, however the cost of using them will exceed the cost of just using another 1/8 of of shot. The shot only will cost 1.6 cents, while the wads will cost at least 3 to 5 cents or more. Not a good alternative. More shot will be the better load and cheaper.

DLM
 

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D L Marcum said:
Rich.
There is no wad in existance that's compatable with a 5/8 oz. shot load, without using a filler to achieve enough fill inside the case to achieve good crimps in a 12 ga. hull.

Any load of less than 3/4 oz. shot will have the same problem in the 12 gauge.

Additionally, in my opinion, that's going too far in the 12 ga. Any load of less than 3/4 oz, of shot, belongs in a smaller gauge gun than the 12 ga. Just isn't practical.

DLM
I agree.

Messing with fillers is a time consuming PITA. You can go down to 11/16 oz in 20 gauge, or 5/8 oz in 28 gauge without fillers.
 

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Nobody has asked Rich why he wants to load 5/8oz 12 loads.
Maybe he isn't doing it for money reasons.
Maybe he doesn't have other guns in other gauges.
He asked how to do it. I told him how I do it.
And your wrong about crimps and performance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
:idea: I ask for the fun of tinkering, possibly save some money, less kick (not that 3/4 to 1 1/8 target loads are an issue), have something others don't have. I just got a 410 but it is not back from fitting, for the really lite load fun. Just wanting to have fun, not cause a major fued. Thanks for all the responses. I'll keep reading those that respond.:idea:
 

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D L Marcum said:
Any load of less than 3/4 oz, of shot, belongs in a smaller gauge gun than the 12 ga. Just isn't practical.
I've abandoned the 3/4 oz. 12-gauge load and am now using 11/16 oz. of raw reclaimed. I can use either payload without changing press adjustments.

The 11/16 oz. payload saves enough lead for about 5,000 extra shells from my 55-gal. drum of reclaimed.

There's no difference whatsoever in performance and the 11/16 oz. crimp is as good as the 3/4 without even thinking about filler.

That's the actual, realistic bottom limit for the 12 gauge without filler.
 

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I didn't mean to sound angry. Its just that everybody assumes it about money and the easiest way to do something. and I get tired of hearing it. Often times a person just wants to tinker or god forbid they enjoy reloading and do it for the fun of doing it.
 

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Easy, fellas, it's not worth getting your knickers in a knot. All you need to do is figure out how much you need to raise the shot to get a good crimp and then insert a 16 or 20 gauge wad of the correct thickness into the case after seating your plastic wad. Old style wads are avaolable in all gauges from Circle Fly and Ballistic Products.
 

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I have been loading 5/8 oz loads in the 12 ga for several months now and using them for practice/fun shooting at skeet and trap. I have yet to see any difference in performance as compared to Case's 3/4 oz recipe. I use the same recipe in AA hulls using as I did for 3/4 oz, only reducing the amount of shot. At first I used a blackeye pea or a cheerio as a filler but later found that further adjustment of the crimping die eliminated that need. My crimps are slightly dished but there is no opening and no rattle of loose shot when shaken. Performance wise, they were chrongraphed at near 1200 fps. After about 10,000 tries , I have yet to have an off sounding shell or anything that indicated poor performance. I am confident in my shells performance and never think about the small amount of shot while shooting, they just work good.

If one does not have confidence in their product it will never be successfull. I shoot the 5/8 because of cost of shot and the low recoil. If the load did not perform satisfactory it would be poor economics.

For those who want to try 5/8 oz, I would suggest you not listen to the naysayers, but give it a good try with an open mind. I feel you will be pleased with the results.

Anyone interested in how I adjusted my dies for good crimps on a Mec 650 PM me.
 
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Way to go Dave Hinton! pssst send me your tricks by pm.

I have quite a bit of 12 gauge stuff hanging around so I built a 5/8 ounce load also. I shoot the 12G shells and then leave them lay just to be rid of the things. On the bottom of my WAA claybuster clone wads I just slip a dried lima bean. Presto -closo. No machine adjustment. Titewad or Bullseye and not much of either. My loaders are single stage so I get to fiddle with the contents of the shell and further fiddle with the depth of down stroke etc. Works for me. What can I say?
 

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I shoot 3/4 oz loads in my 12-gauge 1100 without any problem (except my own lousy aim). The key is a 28-gauge overshot card (.030") on top of the shot. It keeps the petals from digging into the shot and producing a dished crimp. My load uses 17 grains of Red Dot and either a 12S0 clone or the new Downrange pink wad (or orange in a Fed hull). It never fails to cycle, no matter the temperature, and I get all warm and cozy when I think of the money I'm saving.

Heck, I even use it for winter league!

Dan
 

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ke4yyd said:
Anyone interested in how I adjusted my dies for good crimps on a Mec 650 PM me.
What's the big secret?

Why don't you just explain the adjustments right here in this topic, especially since that seems to be the reason for this topic to begin with?
 

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Rich11111 said:
Ok, It's been mentioned of loading 12 g hulls with 5/8 oz load but the ones I've tried with HS hulls, red dot, Claybusters WAA12L replacement & W209 do not fill completely. Does anyone have a good recipe that fill correctly? :?:
I'll go against conventional wisdom and offer a suggestion, even though I've not tried it yet myself.

You might try some of the Claybuster 4100 wads -- the ones everyone dislikes because of the super flexible 8 petal shot cup.

I use those for what I thought were 3/4 oz loads in the Win hulls. I finally got a new, larger-range scale and discovered that the 3/4 oz target bushing only drops 300 grains of No 9's. As a result, I've been making perfectly fine 11/16 oz loads all along and not making it up with a tall powder column (I only use 16.5 grains of Titewad). I don't see any mechanical reason (powder burn aside) why you couldn't build up something with another 1/16 less shot.

I actually loaded up some No 8's for a friend that just had a cataract replacement implant using the same set-up. With the difference in packing density in the shot bushing those might have been 5/8 oz, but I never weighed them. However, the shells and results convinced said friend to dig out his old reloader.

What I've done is drop the crimp starter down a couple of turns so that it almost closes the shell. Then I bring the final crimp die down to produce a good crimp that looks pretty close to factory. The lowered crimp starter actually cuts the crimp down a little farther on the shell so that the finished shell is actually about 1/8" shorter than my 7/8 oz loads in Rem hulls. The Win hulls are flexible (thin, cheap?) enough to do this but I can't get away with it in the Rem STS or Nitro hulls.

Those PITA flexible petals of the CB4100 wad actually help here. They fold over on top of the shot (I've pulled a couple of shells out after the crimp starter to see) and almost act as their own overshot card. However, once the shell is fired the petals seem to pull away anyway, because the patterns that I've gotten are consistently uniform.

It does mean a bit of messing with the loader. However, once I had them running well I just took out the calipers and jotted down measures for the two die settings involved so that I can go back and forth pretty easily now between 11/16 and 7/8.
 

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Made a shocking discovery last night: I've been shooting a 5/8 oz. 12-gauge load ever since I changed from the 3/4 to 11/16 oz. charge bar - and didn't even know it! :shock:

But the mystery was quickly solved: My raw reclaimed shot, a mixture of No. 7-1/2 to 9, was filling out the case higher than shot of a consistently smaller size would have.

Originally, I'd reamed out my 3/4 oz. bar to drop a true 328 grains, knowing I'd be getting a lower pellet count with the reclaimed shot, but didn't bother with that when I went to the 11/16 oz. bar.

This topic aroused my curiosity about how well 5/8 oz. actually would fill a hull, so I weighed a drop and was shocked when it came up at right about 275 grains - the weight of a 5/8 oz. load. Four or five more drops did, too.

The crimps were always excellent on both the 3/4 and 11/16 oz. loads, but I wondered what would happen to them if I weighed out 5/8 oz. of factory No. 9.

The difference was immediately visible: The shot level was a good 1/16" lower and the crimp was dished so much a small hole appeared in the center. But even at that, there were obviously a lot more pellets in there. However, it wasn't dished so much that a bit more adjustment to the cam couldn't have fixed the center hole.

This also explained why I'd been having to tighten up a bit on the skeet shots with fewer pellets in the reclaimed.

Nevertheless, it still breaks targets handily so I'm gonna leave it as is - and stretch my reclaimed even farther.

After all, that stuff is sold by the pound, not the pellet.
 

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Dang, cheapness is so ingrained in you, it is automatic, without thought. I bow to you, O Prince of Frugality. :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
So is putting your breakfast cereal (Cheerios), veggies (lima beans) or other filler to fill the hull that others are doing so rediculas? I guess there isn't much cost savings but alot more "PITA" when you have to figure the added cost of pesticide spray to keep those crawling bugs out of your reloads! Just trying to see if it's worth the hassle with the tinkering.
It sounds like something worth pursuing is reclaimed shot, if one was trying to cut cost. Where is everyone getting this recently?
 

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Rich11111 said:
It sounds like something worth pursuing is reclaimed shot, if one was trying to cut cost. Where is everyone getting this recently?
With the exception of the .410, reclaimed breaks skeet targets about as easily as new shot, but finding a source for it is usually very difficult, if not impossible.

That depends altogether on whether anyone is selling it within reasonable driving distance of where you live.

I get my raw (unprocessed) reclaimed in 55-gal. drums from Gene Sears in El Reno, OK, but it's still almost a 400-mile roundtrip.

All you can do is ask around gun clubs and fellow shooters in your area. It's either available or it isn't — and it likely won't be.
 
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