My question is will steel burn completely in 28 inch barrels with heavy load in 3 inch hulls and 1 3/8 or 1 1/2 oz of tungsten, in both 50 degree and below zero weather..

Yes, But only with loads using Fed209A primers.

Also what would be a good alternate powder for me to use to try more patterns with..

There may be some hodgdon recipes using longshot on their website,but your not gonna beat Alliant STEEL,
it's the cat's meow for steel and tungsten loads.
Get loads off of Alliants website using fed209A primers,
can't go wrong.
Playin with different chokes is going to do a whole lot more for ya than messin with different powders,
don't overlook the sure cycle terror chokes for long range work.,

 

Just can't resist putting in my 2 cent worth. I would just like to say that I have had excellent results on ducks with Hodgeons data & longshot in 3" 12 ga. w/ 1.25 oz. Hevi shot #5. I personally like the buffered loads for barrel protection & remember Hevi Shot is heavy. You don't need super high velocity. They usually claim all published loads function in all types of weather but that is not 100% the case. There are too many variables to make judgements based on one or two components. Steel is one of the best powders, that is a given. Personally, I am going to take a look at Tom Roster's new Hevi Shot manual. He comes off a little arrogant to me but he knows his stuff & has the right connections. I am also going to check out the new Lyman shotgun data in their 5th edition. To quote somebody else, "One good test is worth a thousand expert opinions". Pattern your loads & then test them on the real thing. Remember that a pattern is a two dimensional representation of a three dimensional problem.

 

I have to disagree with Ultra... primarily because I pretty much only use STEEL with all my non-tox hunting loads, Hevi, Hevi13, Bismuth in 28ga, and Steel Shot. Occasionally Ill run some 800X or SR4756 in a fast light load, or some Longshot in a Hevi load...

But... I dont think I have ever used a Fed 209a Primer.
I use Winchesters, Fio, and Cheddite most frequently.

From 1oz steel to 1.5oz hevi - I pretty much use STEEL powder.
I would say, dont limit yourself to only one choice, but the pickins are slim. If it were me, Id buy a 4lb of STEEL, a 1lb of Longshot, and a 1/2 or 1lb of 800x and see where that gets you. And you can always use those on something else if you go with STEEL on everything.

Wade

 

Wade,
fffg was talkin about shootin in 50 below or colder,
you'd be a fool not to use Fed209A primers in that temperature
with STEEL powder,trust me, i know from whence i speak.

 

I will have to admit that I have never hunted in below zero weather & the only data I have used is Hodgdon's for Hevi Shot. Naturally they call for their powder. What I am about to say is partly speculation, but if you study the data, it appears "steel" has an edge over Longshot in the heavier loads. Longshot seems to hold it's own with medium to light shot charges. It would not surprise me to learn that the advantage would shift to the slightly faster burning Longshot in below zero temperatures. Looking back, he said 50 degree & below zero, not 50 below. Ducks don't generally hang around after everything is frozen solid. Anyway, Longshot works better in the larger bore of the 10 ga. under some circumstances. I don't have a 3.5" 12 ga. so the heaviest 12 ga. loads I use are 1.25 oz. (I'm talking Hevi Shot) My standard 10 ga. load is 1 5/8 oz. The 10 ga. is currently very much under rated & underloaded. A good solid 10 does not even work up a sweat with todays loads & data. The 3.5" 12 ga. has to run pressures up around 14,000 psi to do what the 10 ga. does at 11,000. That is pretty much a mute point as both guns do a respectable job & the 10 ga. has all the ballistics it needs at 11,000 psi. The point I am trying to make is that the dynamics of the same payload at the same velocity are very different in the two different ga. guns. The 12 ga. benefits more from the slower burn rate powder. I am not saying one ga. is better than another or one powder is better than the other. Everything is a compromise.

 

Ultra,
Honestly, I hunt plenty at 0 and below... down to -20 on occasion. Most of the river bottom hunting we do, is at 0 or below (as thats when the ducks are there cause everything else is froze up except our warm water creek which runs at 46 and you stand in it in your waders to warm your feet)
I primarily use the Fio616 and Win 209s with STEEL and the Ched209 (CX2000) at times... and havent had a problem. Never had a flub... ever.

So, I guess... Im a fool, cause it seems to work just fine for me down to -20, my dad, and about 5 of my other friends that use the same loads I do.

To quote a mutual annoyance, "Must not be holding your mouth right", but I dont believe my, "Brains are leaking".

 

How many non 209A loads have you tried at 10deg
or colder,
I've got a couple/few non-209A STEEL loads that'll work fine
down to below 0 as well.
many, many, many, more that will not work with any reliability.

 

I have always liked Alliant powder & have been using it since all cases were paper & wads were felt & card & it was Herculies. Steel is a fine powder & the Federal primer is an excellent primer. I use Federal primers and others, but I mostly use Winchester primers. Not because I think they are better, but because I try to simplify my reloading by reducing the number of components. The Federal primer is one of the hottest but there is much more to the characteristics of a primer. Steel is an excellent powder but good as it is, there are other choices. What powder works best with what primer & under what conditions can only be determined by testing in the lab & in the field. If what you are doing is working, don't worry about it, just keep on trucking.
I'm interrested in what Ultra Mag said about Steel always beating Longshot. How does it beat Longshot? I like to look at it as what components deliver the results I am looking for with consistency. Longshot does that for me. Your requirements are different and the load that works for me may not work for you. I am sure that it will work well in cold weather in the right load. Tom Roster's Hevi Shot manual, if I remember right from the advertisement, uses all Longshot powder. His former manuals had Steel powder in them. I would not take that to mean that there is anything wrong with Steel & I know he likes Federal primers.

 

I dont have a huge number of loads I use, I like top keep it as simple as I can... just to ave storage space for various things.

My mainstay loads that see cold temps:
RSI 82 and 132 (will use a FIO616 in the cheddite hulls and w209 in new activs) - My main goose load
FIO38 (using FI0616 mostly - my main #4 duck load)
STS37 (only use W209 in those - my main #3 duck load)
I have used some of my other loads in the cold temps, but they are lighter, faster, and dont use STEEL - so they are irrelevant.
I have played with some of the RSI heavy loads, primarily with W209s.

Honestly, I bought 300 Fed 209a primers when I first started loading non-tox... I have 289 of them left.

Must just be my specific loads that dont mind a non Fed 209a with the STEEL powder. Might be the crimps, I am very adamant about getting a good solid crimp.

 

Good solid crimps are a very definite plus, particularly in cold weather. I have no doubt that a lot of duck hunting is done in very cold weather. I have to back peddle a little as I see the reference to 50 below was a typo. I have never used any RSI data as I have never loaded steel & I have stayed away from their Hevi Shot data because of their reputation for high pressure loads, amoung others. I have no idea if these claims are true or not. It could be just competitive rivalry. If the loads you have been using are not showing any signs of excess pressure & have been working good with no problems, I would not worry about it. I have had problems with data that produced high pressure but it was not RSI data. It is a no brainer that with steel, you have to have the velocity & there is no free lunch. The other alternative is the high priced tungsten stuff. Some still like high velocity loads but even high velocity fans admit it is less important with high density shot & the need for velocity decreases as the shot size increases.

 

There were a few RSI loads that came in hot when tested...
Though I dont think I would say by any means, that I would be super leary of RSI loads, as BPI supposedly had some of the same issues with their loads a while ago.

All in all, I have been very happy with the loads I have settled on. They go fast (slowest one is 1622fps as 11225psi), they pattern well in my gun, and they always go BOOM.

Wade
- patiently waiting for saturday - as season finally starts back up... Doves, then teal, then regular duck and antelope.. and and and and and ...... Im like a kid on Christmas Eve.S

 

I know what you mean. Deer season opened here Aug. 15th. I want to go play with my .58 cal. double rifle muzzle loader. Does anybody have any experience with nontoxic loads for Sandhill Cranes? Any powder & any nontoxic shot except steel. I know there are some good steel loads out there but I hunt with SXS'S & don't like hard pellets in the larger sizes. They are choked too tight for the larger, hard pellets. Actually, they would probably be OK but I don't want to risk it. I have close to 50 lbs. of nontoxic shot I have horded in the last few years, mostly before the price went up. Everything including Bismuth, Hevi Shot, Tungsten Matrix, & Nice Shot. The biggest size I have in HS is #4 but I have #2 BI, #1 & 3 TM, #4,2,& BB'S in nice shot on order. I would guess that most anything would take them in close but it seems it is usually take long shots or no shots. I don't have any desire to kill a truck load of them, just one or two to see what they are like. I am sure regular goose loads will work, I was just wondering about the fine points, above & beyond the obvious. I have heard they are not hard to kill if you can get them in range. The Canadians told me they are no good to eat but I have also heard they are very good. I hear they are called a flying T-BONE in Texas.

 

Im pretty sure here in CO you can use lead, I think you can in TX too. But since I usually an hunting geese when the cranes are around... I just go non-tox and have some #2 Hevi specifically for that purpose.

I havent tried any of the other shot types in the larger sizes. Ive used 4 Biz for ducks and geese in close with the 28 ga and some #5 hevi in the 28 for ducks and geese.

Wish I had more suggestions... Just not to familiar with the larger/softer non-tox.

Wade

 

Wade, you may be interrested to know that I just received Tom Roster's Hevi Shot manual. The loads are for 10 ga. through 12 ga. 2 3/4". All the original loads use Longshot, however, supplement no.1 lists 10, 12 ga. 3" & 2 3/4" loads & all use STEEL powder & Fed. 209A primers. All of Tom's loads are tested for extream conditions.

 

Thanks...
I know that there are some out there that really recommend the Fed 209a... Alliant, Roster, Ultramag, and so forth.

I have managed to get good performance using the Fio616 and Win 209... but it may be a fluke of nature, and I will some day stumble into an issue and wonder "What the heck?!?!" and Ill likely always have some Fed 209a on hand - but til I have issues, Ill prolly stick with the others, as I have 4k of the Fio and 2k of the win on hand to burn through and i dont reload target load in the quantities a lot of the guys here do.

Thanks!!
Wade

 

Wade, There is nothing wrong with what you are using. One good test is worth a thousand expert opinions. If it is working, what else do you need to know? I just thought you might be interested in the Roster loads. I am not suggesting that you stop using the loads that have been working best for you. That is the last thing you should do!

 

I hear ya, an I didnt take what you said to be meant that way. And I didnt mean to sound like I was 'arguing' back at ya. I just wanted to reply so you knew I read it, and probably didnt word things well.

I have been very surprised that with the success I have had with the primers I use, to see so much emphasis on the Fed209a primer. Im starting to wonder if its not only because its hotter, and some people feel that its the best way to go, but if also, so they dont have to deal with people being upset if they dont have good crimps to start with. I wonder if that has anything to do with it (Fed209a) being touted by folks on the marketing side.

Who knows... Im just glad what i have works for me.

 

I agree, while some very good loads are made up with STEEL powder & Fed. 209A primers, they are not the only components out there that produce good loads. I use Winchester primers a lot. They are dependable & usually run lower pressures. Different primers & powders have different characteristics. I don't see how anybody can say one is better than the other. You have to evaluate the whole load in light of what you want from it.

 

Wade, you may be interrested to know that I just received Tom Roster's Hevi Shot manual. The loads are for 10 ga. through 12 ga. 2 3/4". All the original loads use Longshot, however, supplement no.1 lists 10, 12 ga. 3" & 2 3/4" loads & all use STEEL powder & Fed. 209A primers.

geometric:
Where can I find this "supplement no. 1" you speak of? I ordered and received my TR Hevi shot manual from Precision Reloading about 2 or 3 months ago and mine does not contain any loads with steel/fed 209A. I'm VERY interested in them though.

Thanks.
Joel

 

Joel,
You can write or call Tom Roster, 1190 Lynnewood Blvd., Klamath Falls, OR. 67601. 503-884-2974, Fax 503-882-6164.

DLM