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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm buying a new 20ga Cynergy Sporting to match my 12ga version. I have shot sporting clays many of times with another 20ga and never seem to give up any hits vs the 12ga. They all dust the same way. Here I am dinking around with different loads and so forth with the 12ga, but yet looking at different loads for the 20ga they seem to be consistently 1200fps for the norm. Putting two and two together I'm I wasting my time playing with faster loading for the 12ga? Seems to me if I'm going to use both they might as well be the same speed. Is this sound thinking or am I missing something?
 

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Chris - Think you will enjoy your new gun. What seems to be coming through from your question is a developing awareness of what really makes a difference, and what does not. If you can settle on a load that works for you, say 1200 fps, then you can focus entirely on consistently hitting increasingly difficult targets instead of wondering if there is some secret answer outside yourself which offers magical results.

Competition tends to encourage competitors to become more and more alike, whether or not their differing strategies are actually more effective, in order to lesson the possibility that a difference may provide the other with an advantage. Usually, in making changes in the competitive environment, the assumption will be that more is better: more speed, more pellets, more barrel length, faster lock time, lighter weight. So, many will try to eliminate the perceived advantages of the current champion by using (the same as or a little more of) whatever he or she uses, which is relatively easy to accomplish, without paying attention to the practices which build championship level performance.

Think you might really enjoy getting a copy of the book by Gil & Vicki Ash, "You Gotta Be Out of Your Mind - A Shooter's Guide to the Mental Aspects of Sporting Clays & Life." http://www.ospschool.com/outmind.html

Michaelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and Rembrant were all great artists, but their secret was not in the paintbrushes they used, it was in the talent they nurtured through dedication and a relentless love of doing the best they possibly could.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm going to give this idea ago. Instead of fast loads I'll try a lighter more consistant load. I'l be able to get on the second bird faster without added recoil and I shouldn't be as tired shooting as much as I do.
 

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I shot 1 1/8th boomers for years...thought I needed them, trusted them...etc.....but then I took up FITASC and found out what a 1 oz load could do.

It doesn't kick as much, over time , I don't get as tired, and my scores went UP.

What more could one ask? :idea:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
sera russell said:
I shot 1 1/8th boomers for years...thought I needed them, trusted them...etc.....but then I took up FITASC and found out what a 1 oz load could do.

It doesn't kick as much, over time , I don't get as tired, and my scores went UP.

What more could one ask? :idea:
How fast are our 1oz loads though? I'm saying I don't seem to give up much of anything going to 20ga vs a 12ga at SC speed wise. I my mind it was the faster the better. Now I'm rethinking that. The birds I hit turn into dust just the same with the 20ga shooting slower and with less shoot. The 12ga I'm shoot 1300+ and more shoot. I figure I may miss a few birds due to less shot with the 20ga some here or there, but it isn't the speed in which most 20ga loads are tailored. With that said I really wounding why I ever thought I need ultra fast 12ga loads?
 

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I've settled on 1250 1oz for everything [except elk]. Just don't see a reason for an extra 1/8 oz cept the odd chance one of the extra BB might be golden. I feel if I miss with 1 oz I'd have missed with 1 1/4.

If I only shot a casual round or two now and then I wouldn't pay any attention to what I shot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I think once the new gun is in my hands since 20ga target loads all seem to be set at 1200fps I should drop back to 1200fps with my 12ga loads regardless of the shot weight so there is more standardization. Flip flopping from one to the other I think lighter loads in the 12ga would be an easier transition to the 20ga with less mental unwinding going on for improved scores with both guns. Am I making any sence to anyone? Just a thought on how to be more consistant over all.
 

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I think it only really makes sense if the gun weigh and fit the same. Otherwise I don't think 100 fps or so is going to make a difference excerpt in your head. Of course that can be an important difference so only you'll have the answer.
 

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Snowbound said:
I feel if I miss with 1 oz I'd have missed with 1 1/4.
If that were the case, then .410 scores in skeet would be similar to the 12 gauge scores... and they aren't.

Recoil issues aside, I'm a big fan of the largest payload I can use.
 

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I am shooting a Gamebore XLR 1 oz 1250 fps load....to me--it recoils less than my Rio 1210 fps 1 oz loads(that might be in my head).

But I can shoot more, use less choke, and still be confident that these shells will break the targets when I do my part.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Does anyone shoot sub-gauge that has replied thus far? Sure I to love shells of 1oz of 1250fps or better from the 12ga, but would it be fair to say since the 20ga target loads that all seem to be loaded at 1200fps that I should just drop my 12ga loads to match them of the 20ga and be done with it? Other than the amount of lead I can throw I see no other benifit of shooting faster. All I want to be is consistant. It seems logical to me to shoot both at the same spead then there is less of a learning curve.
 

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drsfmd said:
Snowbound said:
I feel if I miss with 1 oz I'd have missed with 1 1/4.
If that were the case, then .410 scores in skeet would be similar to the 12 gauge scores... and they aren't.

Recoil issues aside, I'm a big fan of the largest payload I can use.
Sorry but you can't comment with any reason about what I "feel".

I never said less was as effective as more now did I?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Today for kicks I tried 7/8 z 12ga loads at 1200fps. Other than being really soft they sucked for me. I would have hoped to do better.. Using the 20ga I had better breaks and more birds. Using a simular load, but in a 12ga the results just wasn't there for me. :? Now I wonder why...
 

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01lariat - The poor performance may have been the shells. I've done quite a bit of experimentation with 7/8 oz 12ga loads and I've never been happy with how they pattern (especially in the cold) until the speeds are up around 1250fps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
trapperready said:
01lariat - The poor performance may have been the shells. I've done quite a bit of experimentation with 7/8 oz 12ga loads and I've never been happy with how they pattern (especially in the cold) until the speeds are up around 1250fps.
That was an idea I thought might be an issue, Without patterning it was only a theory. It was 15*F when I shot this afternoon and the breaks were all lack luster at best. Nothing like the bursts of glory from the same weight load from the 20ga auto I used, but the last time I shot that was warmer. Maybe mid 50's or so then. I'll have to work on these. I think they will work with some tweaking.

Tomorrow it is 1 1/8oz 1250fps. A couple more weeks to try and achieve perfection. I'd sure like my little claim to fame etched on to the plaque on the wall. :wink:
 
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Less is more is something hard core skeet shooters have known for decades. Drfsmd attempted to make a point about more pellets in the air meaning better scores by comparing the 410 average with the 12 average. What he failed to say was there is even with that giant disparity only a 2 bird per hundred difference in scoring potential in favor of the big blaster in skeet. Plus, it is unfare to suggest anyone advocates use of the 410 for All-bore Sporting. No one does. There is a definite advantage to be had with less recoil shooting a load that is still adequate to the task.

If you shoot the 12 gauge I vote you load 1 oz of hard 8's to 1200 fps and press ahead blssfully sure that you are going to fair alright in 97% of the presentations. 10 to 15 points of choke will also get it done. A Master shooting that setup will whip most guys shooting anything they can think of over the course used presentation by presentation.

Think of it as Tiger Woods beating you with just a 2 iron in an 18 hole skins game.

Big loads will get to you. A flinch does not help anyone's game.
 

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You know you're losing velocity faster on a 15 degree day the a 50 degree day don't you? Cold air's denser then warm.....i.e. less velocity = slower pellets = less solid breaks.

That alone might explain your "lack luster" breaks.
 

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When I was reloading 7/8oz shells, I'd generally use #8.5 shot at 1200 fps or so in warm weather. However, when it got cold (with about 30 degrees being my cut-off), I'd bump up the powder a bit to get around 1250fps and switch to #7.5 shot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Snowbound said:
You know you're losing velocity faster on a 15 degree day the a 50 degree day don't you? Cold air's denser then warm.....i.e. less velocity = slower pellets = less solid breaks.

That alone might explain your "lack luster" breaks.
Just shot yesterday again and one fella that I shot with had a 20ga. Not a great shooter, but the targets he hit I thought were better breaks in comparison of the day earlier I had with the low recoiling 7/8oz 12ga loads. Same cold both days. I'm convinced that even though they are both 7/8oz loads the actual 20ga does it better at the slower velocities it is limited to at least in the colder weather than the 12ga. To be more scientific I need to chrono both guns and them loads along with patterning them both. I'll wait for my new 20ga since it is a mini me version of my 12ga sporter. Same barrel lengths and both ported the testing might be better matched then. I think when it comes to 7/8oz and a 12ga I'd be happier with the results cold or warm with faster. But that is only speculation at the is point.
 
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