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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Or the ad in Ducks Unlimited? Good grief, now they've got inertia powered pump guns. Newton would be proud I'm sure.
 

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Inertia Powered
Just another marketing Catch Phrase like Speed Pump a few years back.

One important fact regarding trombone shotguns...
Don't forget about the guy operating the pump in the first place.
One has to become mighty proficient over time racking a pump to consistently hit multiple targets regardless of make or model. Less and less out there today really can because of the reliable semi-autos for reasonable money on the market. That is why the Tom Knapp record stands or not been tied in my opinion. Not impossible... but very hard to accomplish consistently speed shooting with a pump. Herb and Tom have nothing to worry about from what I've seen out there lately. More and more guys have switched over to semi auto long receiver shotguns through the years. Less shoulder problems as well.

Then there is the bolt action shotgun hold outs...:lol:
 

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jds said:
Inertia Powered
Just another marketing Catch Phrase like Speed Pump a few years back.
Yes.

Win M12's, Ithaca M37's and 870s unlock and the bolt comes back upon firing, it is hardly like the Win 1300 or it's derivatives were the first or only gun to have this feature.

I had an Ithaca M37 Supreme Grade that would eject the shell just like what is shown in the video on the Winchester site, if you did not hold on to the fore end. The M37 is based on a JM Browning design introduced by Remington in 1917 so a pump that opens on firing is hardly a new idea.

It isn't about to make me run out and buy one.
 

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G.T. Garwood's "Shooting Facts & Fancies", A&C Black Ltd., London, 1978, addresses the inertia issue of pump guns. He states that, " the ordinary pump gun has an innate tendency to work automatically. This arises from the fact that when the gun recoils, the fore-end and associated parts are compelled to recoil with it. But when the gun is brought to rest by the resistance of the shooter's shoulder, these same parts are free to continue their rearward course, and if only they had enough inertia, they would do so and would eject the spent case and recock the gun. What is more, if there were a light return spring, the fore-end would then return of its own accord to its original position, feeding a fresh cartridge into the chamber in the process, whereupon the gun would be ready to fire again.

But how much weight would it be necessary to add to the fore-end of a pump gun to make it work as a self-loader? My immediate answer to the doubt that has been raised is that the hand and forearm of the shooter, added to the weight of the fore-end, and reinforced by anticipatory pressure, are, in my opinion, quite capable of achieving the first part of the double-movement without conscious effort; and that the second part can equally unconsciously be achieved by the instinctive recovery from the recoil.

So, I do not think that there is anything remote about the prospect of working a pump gun subconsciously."

Garwood went on to state that this is the principal of the Benelli autoloader wherein "the recoil kicks an internal inertia weight and sends it flying back against the action of a light return spring to perform all the functions just described."
 

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Nothing really "new" about the Winchester pump other than it is now being manufactured in Turkey. :roll: The gun is the same basic design as all the Winchester pumps since about 1964...BRING BACK THE MODEL 12!!!
 

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just the picture on the website turned me off. Shame to see space guns coming from winchester. If you want to shoot a really ugly pump gun from mars just buy a benellie nova!

I would also never consider another turkish gun after owning one. I agree they should bring back the model 12!
 

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stockranger said:
I agree they should bring back the model 12!
Nothing wrong with that sentiment, however, given the number of posts asking for "The best, darn new pump gun under $300.00", I wonder if there are enough people out there willing and able to pay the price they would have to charge for making, fitting and tuning them the way they should (i.e., the way they were done pre-1964),
 

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Claydust said:
stockranger said:
I agree they should bring back the model 12!
Nothing wrong with that sentiment, however, given the number of posts asking for "The best, darn new pump gun under $300.00", I wonder if there are enough people out there willing and able to pay the price they would have to charge for making, fitting and tuning them the way they should (i.e., the way they were done pre-1964),
If the latest incarnation of Ithaca succeeds selling a ~$900 pump, then there just may be a small market for high end pump guns. A small production line in the FN plant in SC turning out Model 12s would seem reasonable. If Ithaca goes belly up in the next year or two then the question of will consumers buy high end pumps will have been answered.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
It has been a little while now, but Browning had a little difficulty selling their Model 12 recreations as I recall, and they were made better than Winchester's own.
 

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Actually, I think that just improving the 1200/1300 might
be the way to go. I have heard they have some reliability
issues, but that sort of thing should be pretty easy to
improve. What could go wrong? Some of the things in
the trigger group, or feed latch might need some stronger
parts, and if this is true then it would seem that they
could design a better trigger group, or whatever, somewhat
like Timney did for the 1100 and 870 guns. I had a number
of all steel Timney triggers for these in the past. I still
have one for my 870, and I have the parts to convert it
between pull or release. If they figured out the failing
parts on a 1200/1300, then had a deluxe conversion for
it I believe this would be an excellent pump. I owned one
of the old 1200s years back and I liked the way it shot.
It failed due to the plate on the bottom of the bolt shearing
off the screw that holds it to the bolt. This was an early
design defect, that they corrected by having the plate
butt up against a shoulder on the bolt body, thereby not
stressing that screw any. I am sure there could be other
simple fixes for other flaws that still may be occasionally
stopping the works in this action. I had a friend who
shot a lot of skeet with a 1200, and he could afford any
shotgun he wanted, but he really loved the slick action,
balance and weight of the 1200. I liked it too.
 

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Claydust said:
stockranger said:
I agree they should bring back the model 12!
Nothing wrong with that sentiment, however, given the number of posts asking for "The best, darn new pump gun under $300.00", I wonder if there are enough people out there willing and able to pay the price they would have to charge for making, fitting and tuning them the way they should (i.e., the way they were done pre-1964),
Able? Probably.
Willing? I doubt it.

Remember, cheaper is better. After all Chinese or Turkish labor is not underpriced, we Americans are just overpaid!
 

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DevilsAdvocate said:
Actually, I think that just improving the 1200/1300 might
be the way to go. I have heard they have some reliability
issues, but that sort of thing should be pretty easy to
improve. What could go wrong? Some of the things in
the trigger group, or feed latch might need some stronger
parts, and if this is true then it would seem that they
could design a better trigger group, or whatever, somewhat
like Timney did for the 1100 and 870 guns. I had a number
of all steel Timney triggers for these in the past. I still
have one for my 870, and I have the parts to convert it
between pull or release. If they figured out the failing
parts on a 1200/1300, then had a deluxe conversion for
it I believe this would be an excellent pump. I owned one
of the old 1200s years back and I liked the way it shot.
It failed due to the plate on the bottom of the bolt shearing
off the screw that holds it to the bolt. This was an early
design defect, that they corrected by having the plate
butt up against a shoulder on the bolt body, thereby not
stressing that screw any. I am sure there could be other
simple fixes for other flaws that still may be occasionally
stopping the works in this action. I had a friend who
shot a lot of skeet with a 1200, and he could afford any
shotgun he wanted, but he really loved the slick action,
balance and weight of the 1200. I liked it too.
One 45 year old problem thet could solve is to quit putting 20ga. barrels on 12ga. receivers with a "Oh well...good enough" attitude. :roll:
 
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