I had a new Wingmaster .410 in my shop about six months ago. It looked like a nice gun to me. I certainly wouldn't call it junk.

 

I had a new Wingmaster .410 in my shop about six months ago. It looked like a nice gun to me. I certainly wouldn't call it junk.

Thanks for your reply. Wingmasters are the best 870's, the cadillacs of pump shoutguns. Remington gives special atention to Wingmasters and 870 Police. But what about the entry Express models ??

 

I've been looking at the Rem 870 marine magnum, but many people say Remington's quality has declined a lot, to a level that the NEW 870s are junk.

What kind of qualities are you talking about?

 

I've been looking at the Rem 870 marine magnum, but many people say Remington's quality has declined a lot, to a level that the NEW 870s are junk.

What kind of qualities are you talking about?

Fit & finish + malfunctions.

 

Fit & finish + malfunctions.

Laminated wood and Phosphate/parkerized metal aren't going to have the fit and finish of walnut and blued steel. That's a big part of the price difference.

As for function, based solely on the guns I've seen people bring out to the skeet range, I'd say the Express will probably work fine. They probably get smoother with use, too.

 

I have 2 12 ga and 1 20 ga 870 Express shotguns that my boy's have been using for 4-H trap shooting, high school trap shooting and hunting. The only problem so far with 2 of the shotguns is Herters shotgun shells sticking in the chamber. I did polish the chambers and the problem went away.
Herters and Winchester Universal shells can cause the same problem in other brands of shotguns.

I think the finish on the barrel and receiver is better on the Express shotguns than in the past.

 

I have an older twenty with the chrome lifter and a new one. They are at least equal, I like the new one more.

 

I bought a 20 gauge 870 Express and gave it to my grandson. Only problem with it was the extractor was not closing onto the lip of the shell. After it got the gunk out of it, no more problems. It works fine now and the boy is using it and has had no more trouble.

I am 80 years young and have liked Remington products, though I haven't used them a lot. I have used the 1100 and the 11-87 from time to time and no problems. Many of my acquantances use Remington guns, mostly 1100s and a few 870s. From my observations of their guns, I have not reached the conslusion that Remington has quality problems, though a few years ago, they let out a batch of 870 Expresses with rough chambers. That was quickly corrected and the fix was simple enough for anyone with a drill and some 00 steel wool to correct.

 

The difference between a $25,000 vehicle and a $40,000 vehicle can be essentially just the finish. Same frame, engine, transmission, everything that makes a car a car and and SUV an SUV from a motion control standpoint may be the same, but the cash for a higher level of finish is substantial.

It isn't much different with firearms. An Express goes bang just as well as an 870 Wingmaster, it is just finish. The receivers are all made from a solid block of steel and the barrels are all made from 4140 steel . . . and, they are all made in Ilion, NY, with the same machines by the same people.

Some people claim their old Wingmasters are "smoother." Of course they are. After an 870 gets shucked 15,000 or 20,000 times, they all get smoother . . . old or new, Express or Wingmaster.

 

I've got a couple old 1970s Wingmasters that are great, and an Express. My son has won a couple Expresses in high school shoots. The new 26" barrel Wingmaster 12 gauge I fondled at Scheels last weekend seemed extremely nice - well finished and smooth. It's a great design so they're all good.

My only beef with the new Expresses is that the wood checkering is so bad that it's slippery when dry and even worse when wet or with gloves on.

If I ended up in a socialists' paradise where I was only allowed to own one shotgun, it would probably be an 870 Wingmaster.

 

The new Wimgmaster 12 gauge purchased in 2017 was as rough (action/function) as any of the three Express models tried over the past ~30 seasons. In stark contrast stands the ~1971 vintage 20 gauge Wimgmaster that was obviously a safe queen as 100% of the blueing was still intact. It shucks like it's supposed to and successfully patterns a wide array of loads with the fixed choke MOD barrel. Current 870 production? No mas. The 12 gauge went to a new home.

BTW, the camo 20 gauge Sportsman 11-87 picked up a couple weeks back got a run on the trap field last weekend. Other than having to do some corrective work on the magazine tube to get it to take shells and the fact it shoots low (second 20 gauge 11-87 I've had to do so) it is a decent piece. Will probably put a Monte Carlo cheek piece on it to fix that deficiency.

 

The difference between a $25,000 vehicle and a $40,000 vehicle can be essentially just the finish. Same frame, engine, transmission, everything that makes a car a car and and SUV an SUV from a motion control standpoint may be the same, but the cash for a higher level of finish is substantial.

It isn't much different with firearms. An Express goes bang just as well as an 870 Wingmaster, it is just finish. The receivers are all made from a solid block of steel and the barrels are all made from 4140 steel . . . and, they are all made in Ilion, NY, with the same machines by the same people.

Some people claim their old Wingmasters are "smoother." Of course they are. After an 870 gets shucked 15,000 or 20,000 times, they all get smoother . . . old or new, Express or Wingmaster.

Randy sums it up as well as it an be said.

 

Not sure what constitutes " new " vs. "old" when it comes to 870s, mine is a Super Mag turkey gun circa about `05. It`s pre-owned, weighs a good 8 lbs and is like a block of steel fashioned into a gun. Solid as a rock and a tight action without a rattle anywhere. Couldn`t be more pleased. I do have a V3 that has been flawless, though I can`t say the same about my shooting ( not the gun`s fault! ).

 

I wonder if the same guys that built the 1971 Wingmaster are still working for the company. If the experience of last year's new production is any indicator, probably not.

 

Do be aware that all of these 870's are very finicky about cheap shot shells. Someone mentioned problems with the Herters shells, the issue is also common with the cheap Winchesters, Dicks Field and Stream (made by Federal) and probably others. There is nothing worse than being unable to shuck out a shell.
My 1964 Wingmaster TB (smooth as butter with so many rounds through it) does the same thing. It will cycle the Federals but not Win or Field and Streams..........

The newer guns are heavy and rough...but they are beasts. I've use my Express when it's too nasty out to use anything else. It's a super easy gun to service and it goes bang most of the time. In freezing rain it can have issues with the firing pin. The wood is cheap and with a lot of use the stock will break. I put plastic on mine when it did and it made the gun lighter....

 

No.......If cared for they will outlast all of us, Randy is right!

 

From the reviews by real purchasers I've read about the most current and best "American Classic" (?) top of the line and other 870 Wingmasters, I would think they are fine, and as good hopefully as the Wingmasters of old. Much pricier though, than older, solid quality, used versions from the 60's, 70's and maybe later.

Since pump guns are relatively inexpensive to begin with and within my budget, were I to be in the market currently for an 870, I would not ever consider an Express over the Wingmaster version. And since excellent older versions are so common on the used market, I'd feel no need for a new, more expensive, Wingmaster over a used one at that.

Even a 2 3/4 inch, fixed choke, older gun, or extra barrels would meet almost all one's needs for very little money. The used Wingmaster market has nice examples available in just about any iteration you can want.

 

I have 3 relatively new 870's---a 12ga Wingmaster and a 20ga Express purchased in the last year or so --- and a full camo Express Super Mag bought 3-4 years ago.

All have 26in barrels

Both Express models were purchased at Walmart

Both 12 guages have the crap plastic magazine followers replaced with stainless after market followers---and would replace the one in the 20ga if i could find one.

All of them are very smooth and have functioned flawlessly so far---the Wingmaster handles much better than the one i had in the 70's due to the Light Contour barrel---the 20ga is quite handsome for an Express(wood stocked model)---the Super Mag is just a beast.

I would buy them again if they were worn out or came up missing.

 

Don't expect the Express to be a Wingmaster. New Wingmasters that I see are over twice the price of an Express. I have four Expresses, two 12s and two 20s. Two with laminated stocks and two with solid birch (?). Two bought new at Walmart and two bought used at pawn shops. I polished the chambers on all four on their initial breakdown and cleaning. No problems with any of them so far. I have Mossberg 500s, Ithaca 37, Winchester 1300, and a Remington 31. I would not hesitate to buy another Express.
( Actually looking at a 28 gauge at Academy.)

 

I have one Remington 870 Deer, two Combos and one Police. No problems at all. You may need to polish the chamber and replace MIM-extractor with non-MIM extractor for more reliable work.

 

I have 3 relatively new 870's---a 12ga Wingmaster and a 20ga Express purchased in the last year or so --- and a full camo Express Super Mag bought 3-4 years ago.

All have 26in barrels

Both Express models were purchased at Walmart

Both 12 guages have the crap plastic magazine followers replaced with stainless after market followers---and would replace the one in the 20ga if i could find one.

All of them are very smooth and have functioned flawlessly so far---the Wingmaster handles much better than the one i had in the 70's due to the Light Contour barrel---the 20ga is quite handsome for an Express(wood stocked model)---the Super Mag is just a beast.

I would buy them again if they were worn out or came up missing.

I find it very interesting, the very marked differences of opinions regarding " newer " ( not real sure what years that constitutes ) Remington guns, particularly 870`s. They seem to range from " garbage " all the way to " No problems, would purchase again in a heartbeat ". Can there truly be that much variability , gun by gun ? It would seem that if there were deep, inherent and pervasive manufacturing defects, nobody
would find them to be even moderately satisfactory.

 

People say a lot especially if it's not a Benelli or Browning . The truth is they buy the Remington and they read stuff of other people trashing Remington ,because they've convinced themselves that a Benelli or Browning shotgun is better because it cost another 100-700 more it's got to be better . Then the truth hits them ,but thatll never admit neither make them happy because their high dollar gun has the same problem their cheaper prices gun that didnt have to be shipped and go through customs . I've got a my first 870 that's had thousands through it nothings fail on it nothing has had to be replaced and its 20 some odd years old I got a 70's model wingman the stock has cracked in places from it being used to beat stuff it has never had anything replaced also . It goes boom everytime ! Also to boot for the life of that gun its covered under warranty . You get 3 to maybe 7 years of warranty out of a import . I've seen where FN refused to stand by a Maxus because Winchester shell blew up the barrel and they both blame each other and the guy never got it settled . I dont use my 870 much because of range of motion in my elbow isn't what it was . So I use a Versa Max Sportsman .

 

Remington has sold a lot of 870s over the years. No one could argue that they're not a successful design-in the right place at the right time.

However-I have to say-I have known FOUR buddies in the last fifteen years who went out and bought new Remington 870s. They all pulled the guns out of the factory boxes and placed them in safes. Some were left for several weeks and others for several months. But they all had one thing in common. SURFACE RUST. All four of these guns developed aggressive surface rust before they were ever fired. One buddy was in Ohio, one in Western WA and two in Eastern WA. Being a metal fabricator myself, I believe that Remington has a problem with their bead-blasting or blueing processes. Contamination of some kind. They are fairly coarse finishes. Made to a price point. A coarse bead-blasted finish will hide a multitude of sins in the machining and finishing steps. Taken together with Remington's recent financial troubles-I have to believe that where there's smoke there's fire. They've also had some highly publicized QA issues with the new R51 pistols as well as safeties on the 700 series of rifles. Just sayin'.

 

However-I have to say-I have known FOUR buddies in the last fifteen years who went out and bought new Remington 870s. They all pulled the guns out of the factory boxes and placed them in safes. Some were left for several weeks and others for several months. But they all had one thing in common. SURFACE RUST.

What does that have to do with new, made in 2018, Remington 870's?

 

Remington has sold a lot of 870s over the years. No one could argue that they're not a successful design-in the right place at the right time.

However-I have to say-I have known FOUR buddies in the last fifteen years who went out and bought new Remington 870s. They all pulled the guns out of the factory boxes and placed them in safes. Some were left for several weeks and others for several months. But they all had one thing in common. SURFACE RUST. All four of these guns developed aggressive surface rust before they were ever fired. One buddy was in Ohio, one in Western WA and two in Eastern WA. Being a metal fabricator myself, I believe that Remington has a problem with their bead-blasting or blueing processes. Contamination of some kind. They are fairly coarse finishes. Made to a price point. A coarse bead-blasted finish will hide a multitude of sins in the machining and finishing steps. Taken together with Remington's recent financial troubles-I have to believe that where there's smoke there's fire. They've also had some highly publicized QA issues with the new R51 pistols as well as safeties on the 700 series of rifles. Just sayin'.

I`ve owned three Remington firearms. An 1100 from the mid-80`s that saw extensive service in Louisiana duck marshes. Took reasonable care of it, it never rusted and never failed. A V3 walnut bought last year. It has performed flawlessly and, again with reasonable care, has shown no signs of surface rust. I think they are fine shotguns, especially at their price point. A 2005 870 Super Magnum SPS-T turkey gun in Mossy Oak camo. That thing`s a tank! Also flawless performance. That`s been my Remington experience. Also just sayin`.