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Kind of a shame to write off a whole category of weapons as obsolete just because there is a more modern, more accurate, faster, higher energy, and lots more expensive new alternative available. Guess this means I've got to throw both my crossbows and my blackpowder guns in the dumpster, them being all obsolete, and unethical, and all.

Might be more logical to figure that all this hardware has a legitimate application, depending upon the circumstances. Having been down the road a couple times, I can tell you that there are plenty of heavy brush woods in the PRM where a sabot gun with a nice scope and high velocity, long range sabots will just make you look like a big dummy, about the time Big Buckie jumps up from a hide ten yards out. THEN you get to say, "Gee, if I'd only had my old smoothie with the steel sights, I might have had a chance at that............ :roll:
Usually its not the hardware, its the plan, or lack of one, that decides the hunt results for the day. Slug Hunting is just like every other situation you run across in life, requiring a bit of mental flexibility for success, not just a one size fits all solution.

Besides with Brennekke slugs at $2.95 a box, Hastings 100-150 yard sabots at $8.95, and some of the "modern" fast-fast, light-light sabots upwards of $17.95 for 5 shots, those old smoothies look like pretty good general purpose meat grinders to me.......... :lol:

Of course if you don't mind throwing down a "couple hundred dollars" worth of cash for long range ethics and modernity, well, then, that's a horse of another color, evidently green, I guess? :lol:
 

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jcchartboy said:
OneInchGroup said:
Kind of a shame to write off a whole category of weapons as obsolete just because there is a more modern, more accurate, faster, higher energy, and lots more expensive new alternative available.
Yeah....that would be be a pretty dumb idea!!...So why are you suggesting that anyone should "wrote off the category"...?

You are the first, (and only), one here to suggest such a thing...

I presume you have a pretty good reason for having such a an implication?...So, lets your reasoning behind making the suggestion that folks would "write off the category"

JC
UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM..........

Quote:
ob·so·lete (ŏb'sə-lēt', ŏb'sə-lēt')

Outmoded in design, style, or construction:

The smoothbore shotgun for use in deer hunting is by definition obsolete...there is no debating that.

The only question is...does the cost savings associated with shooting smoothbore guns at the range justify using them while hunting...?

The obvious answer is...it all depends on what is more important to a person, saving less than a few hundred dollars a year...or increasing their odds of ethically harvesting an animal...

JC

Wasn't that YOUR statement? Now you are jumping me for simply playing your own words back, as if I'M the elitist nit looking way down my barrel at the lowly smoothbore? Give it a rest, pal, when you come up with a silly statement like that, SOMEBODY is gonna call you on it.............it just seems the ethical thing to do................ :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

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jcchartboy said:
OneInchGroup said:
Kind of a shame to write off a whole category of weapons as obsolete just because there is a more modern, more accurate, faster, higher energy, and lots more expensive new alternative available.
OneInchGroup said:
Wasn't that YOUR statement?
Which part of your own statements don't you understand one-shot?...

You are the first, and only, person on this forum to suggest that members "write off a whole category of weapons as obsolete just because there is a more modern, more accurate, faster, higher energy, and lots more expensive new alternative available."

One would think with your agenda being so well publicized you would have been staying out of the spotlight.... (Don't you and your business associates, (Hastings), have some more Hunting Forums to threaten with lawsuits for discussing the inadequacies of your "super" new product?)

JC
One more time, for the utterly dense:

UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM..........

Quote:
ob·so·lete (ŏb'sə-lēt', ŏb'sə-lēt')

Outmoded in design, style, or construction:

The smoothbore shotgun for use in deer hunting is by definition obsolete...there is no debating that.

The only question is...does the cost savings associated with shooting smoothbore guns at the range justify using them while hunting...?
The obvious answer is...it all depends on what is more important to a person, saving less than a few hundred dollars a year...or increasing their odds of ethically harvesting an animal...

JC

Wasn't that YOUR statement? Now you are jumping me for simply playing your own words back, as if I'M the elitist nit looking way down my barrel at the lowly smoothbore? Give it a rest, pal, when you come up with a silly statement like that, SOMEBODY is gonna call you on it.............it just seems the ethical thing to do................

You call smoothies obsolete by definition,thereby writing them off as a waste of time, I call you on it, along with a couple others here, and you try to make me the villain, and once again start up an unrelated attack on me and a manufacturer who evidently had something to say offline about this fixation you seem to have against all but your own small selection of acceptable guns, ammunition, and presumeably also cars, boats, and underwear for all I know. Take a lesson from most any trial lawyer, who will remind you that an ad hominem attack is the last resort of someone who otherwise has no case. Big surprise....everything on this forum and elsewhere is not necessarily all about you, nor does everyone feel required to accept your words as gospel. Give it a rest, why don't you?
 

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By the way, about all this work being done to connect me with Hastings, and somehow make that a disqualifying aspect for me being taken seriously concerning slug shooting, etc. Here's the disclaimer for today:

Neither I nor any of my Company's employees are now or have ever been employees of Hastings. My Company has done some good work for them and we hope to do more in the future, since unlike some others who profess to have nothing to do with any "commercial" interests, we've always found it necessary to actually work for a living, and that requires customers and projects to work on for them.

Being publicists for any of our clients or presenting any false claims about their products or anyone else's is NOT any part of our business practice. We're engineers and designers, not advertising hacks.

I'd also invite any and all other manufacturers serving our little niche market to contact my Company anytime, as we're always looking for new design and build opportunities in a field we think we understand fairly well........ :wink:

Anyone who has an unendurable urge to investigate me can simply visit the Company website at http://www.plasticexperts.com to see what that's all about.

For the record, in over 30 years in business, I've done design and development work for most of the commercial ammunition makers, including Activ, Lightfield and Hastings, among others, as well as a couple Companies that make firearms, worked as an armaments designer for Westinghouse Weapons Division, and designed and delivered products for NIST and a few other government agencies.

If all of this offensive commercial activity is sufficient to disqualify me from posting here, amongst so many who obviously must have learned so much more on the outside looking in than I could possibly have discovered by actually doing the work, then of course I can understand always being hounded off the forum whenever I say somethig about ammo or firearms.

Frankly, having to deal with the personal attack mode whenever I've got anything to say tends to get tiresome anyway. Seems wierd to me that anybody else with real experience training, etc. gets a modicum of respect for the hard earned knowledge they are willing to share, but here, expert knowledge and the ability to be helpful to others because of it, just gets me "tarred" with the old "evil commercial interests" brush.

Guess the only ones qualified to post here must be folks who DON'T have the training or experience to actually know what they're talking about? Yup, anecdotal information and fairy tales from the deep woods where there are no witnesses just beat the wee out of proof house results and suchlike propaganda every time. :roll:

OK guys, rant is done, let's see if we can get through one day without having another thread twisted into yet another hangman's noose to use against the big bad OIG, Hmmmm?

Happy hunting, anyway. :roll:
 

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txgolfer45 said:
OneInchGroup said:

"The smoothbore shotgun for use in deer hunting is by definition obsolete...there is no debating that. "

Sounds like you are to slug guns what Al Gore is to Global Warming!

No debate wanted!

Where I was hunting yesterday, a slug gun and scope would be a very distinct disadvantage, IMHO. I was in heavy brush in the bottom of an old dried out creek channel. I felt very comfortable with my smoothbore shotgun (870 Express) with an IC choke and Remington Sluggers as all shooting lanes provided less than 30 yd shots. I do have Truglo sights on it to aid in aiming. Now, if I'm in more open settings, I'll gladly use my buddy's Ultra Slug Hunter with scope for the longer shots.

Smoothbore obsolete? Nope. It's not obsolete if it is the right tool for the job.
Hey Tex, if you go back and read the thread posts, you'll find it was JC Chartboiy dismissing smoothies as obsolete, and I'm the guy catching flack for pointing out the fallacy of his argument and the dsimissive tone of it, which I found offensive. I'm an advocate of the right tool for the job, whatever that might be, and have been trying to point out, evidently with no success, that smoothies for short to medium range hunting in heavy brush or cornfield drives, etc. have been the right tool for the job for the past fifty years or so, and that long range saboted shells are relative newcomers, very expensive, and a dumb choice if you are up close with the game. Bad enough to get hammered for what I DID say, let alone getting more grief about the dippy statements made by others 'round here.
 

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jcchartboy said:
OneInchGroup said:
We're backing off putting anything else up around here…I'm not fueling it anymore….Consider this source closed.
Thank you for once again proving why no one on this board trusts a single word you say.... :roll:

JC
I'm soooooo sorry, forgot I needed your permission to speak. :shock: Also, I apologize to anyone else who feels I need to get gone and stay gone. I like this forum; it just keeps dragging me back in, almost against my will.......... :wink:

Speaking of speaking, when did the election take place that appointed you the spokesperson for EVERYONE on this board, except me? Do you really believe that EVERYONE here is in lock-step with you, opinion-wise? What a wonderful little world you must occupy, surrounded, in your eyes, by adoring crowds of mindless syncophants hanging on your every word, and delighted with your decisions on who can speak and who must not. Kinda like being Emperor of Rome, with that good old live or die thumb to wave up or down, deciding the fate of the mere mortals who dare to cross your path.

Seems to me you're on the edge of yet another big ego meltdown there, pal.

Do try to remember it's an OPEN forum, and most folks who disagree manage to do so agreeably, basing their arguments on some sort of facts, rather than just posting insults in hopes of driving out all us ole' infidels that don't toe their particular line.

Somebody want to call out the thought police? Looks like I'm about to get Tar-Hunted again, for having a contrary OPINION.

Ever hear of the first amendment? Means I get to DISAGREE, even with the self appointed "GOD of the Slug Shooting Hobbyists".

Try to get through ONE WHOLE DAY without coming up with yet another sophomoric ad hominem attack, OK Chartsey Buoy??

After all, EVERYONE by now knows your agenda, too, and trotting it out on a daily basis just wastes bandwidth.

We all know the wounds you feel you've suffered, etc. etc. and all hope you can GET OVER IT.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
 

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old ammo said:
OneInchGroup said:
Kind of a shame to write off a whole category of weapons as obsolete just because there is a more modern, more accurate, faster, higher energy, and lots more expensive new alternative available. Guess this means I've got to throw both my crossbows and my blackpowder guns in the dumpster, them being all obsolete, and unethical, and all.

Of course if you don't mind throwing down a "couple hundred dollars" worth of cash for long range ethics and modernity, well, then, that's a horse of another color, evidently green, I guess? :lol:
JC, are you the only one here who doesn't know what he meant?
Why start another food fight?
BLESS YOU, MY FRIEND! (Hope calling you that doesn't draw fire toward your position) I was holding out some faint hope that SOMEBODY would step up to help me defend the position that traditional tools don't have to be thrown overboard whenever a new zoomie toy turns up, and that those who continue traditional hunting methods do not HAVE TO BE talked down to in dismissive tones, as if they are beneath contempt. What a relief to hear a voice different from the usual Babel.........
 
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