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jeager106 said:
By the way.
The K.O. and Mossy will group anywhere between 3 to 5 inches at one hundred yards.
From what I've read many guys are having trouble getting CONSISTANT 3" groups with sabot ammo.
Please. If anyone out there is getting 3" and better CONSISTANTLY with saboted ammo post some pics and let us in in the secret.
That seems like an awfull lot to say about other members, claiming most members are not honestly receiving the accuracy levels they claim at 100yds simply because they are not showing pictures....Then following that comment by stating how great your accuracy is, (if you consider 3-5" great), and not posting any 100yd pics yourself.....No?

Frankly I don't really care what smoothbores do, it just seems your post is filled with alot of assumptions and false conclusions..

The one thing I do agree with though, if you are happy with 5" groups then you may not need a rifled barrel...

JC
 

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ob·so·lete (ŏb'sə-lēt', ŏb'sə-lēt')

Outmoded in design, style, or construction:
The smoothbore shotgun for use in deer hunting is by definition obsolete...there is no debating that.

The only question is...does the cost savings associated with shooting smoothbore guns at the range justify using them while hunting...?

The obvious answer is...it all depends on what is more important to a person, saving less than a few hundred dollars a year...or increasing their odds of ethically harvesting an animal... :wink:

JC
 

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OneInchGroup said:
Kind of a shame to write off a whole category of weapons as obsolete just because there is a more modern, more accurate, faster, higher energy, and lots more expensive new alternative available.
Yeah....that would be be a pretty dumb idea!!...So why are you suggesting that anyone should "wrote off the category"...?

You are the first, (and only), one here to suggest such a thing...

I presume you have a pretty good reason for having such a an implication?...So, lets your reasoning behind making the suggestion that folks would "write off the category"

JC
 

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OneInchGroup said:
Kind of a shame to write off a whole category of weapons as obsolete just because there is a more modern, more accurate, faster, higher energy, and lots more expensive new alternative available.
OneInchGroup said:
Wasn't that YOUR statement?
Which part of your own statements don't you understand one-shot?...

You are the first, and only, person on this forum to suggest that members "write off a whole category of weapons as obsolete just because there is a more modern, more accurate, faster, higher energy, and lots more expensive new alternative available."

One would think with your agenda being so well publicized you would have been staying out of the spotlight.... (Don't you and your business associates, (Hastings), have some more Hunting Forums to threaten with lawsuits for discussing the inadequacies of your "super" new product?)

JC
 

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txgolfer45 said:
OneInchGroup said:

"The smoothbore shotgun for use in deer hunting is by definition obsolete...there is no debating that. "

Sounds like you are to slug guns what Al Gore is to Global Warming!

No debate wanted!
Txgolfer45,

As you can see this guy is a complete joke. He somehow believes that he can come on here and benefit himself by making ridiculous statements and then attributing them to others.

To date he is the only one here that has made the suggestion that a smoothbore is not an acceptable means to harvest deer.

Where he gets off making the suggestion that others would agree with him..who knows? But then again, seeing as he has regularly proven himself not to be a man of his word, nothing surprises me about him any longer. :roll:

JC
 

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OneInchGroup said:
Kind of a shame to write off a whole category of weapons as obsolete just because there is a more modern, more accurate, faster, higher energy, and lots more expensive new alternative available. Guess this means I've got to throw both my crossbows and my blackpowder guns in the dumpster, them being all obsolete, and unethical, and all.
Rangeball,

Which part of the above statement made by OIG don't you understand???

He is clearly attempting to equate the term the "obsolete" with the implication that something is therefore useless. An implication being made by him and him alone.

No one else here ever equated "obsolete" with the term "dumpster" or for that matter "throw" away....except One'r.

If that is the way he thinks...fine. Let him think that way.

However, he is going to get called out everytime he tries to attempts to paint his fugazzi picasso's by attributing false statements to other members in an attempt to benefit hismself.

This isn't the first time he has pulled this type of B.S. and given his nature I am sure it won't be the last... :w

JC
 

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jjas said:
What the hell does "fugazzi picasso" mean? :?

Jim
Painting a fake picture...

(....like OIG was doing by equating the dictionairy definition of the word obsolete...with the words "dumpster" and "throw" away...An equation that is not only factually incorrect, but also an equation he was falsely attempting to attribute to me when in reality the facts show I never made any such statement...)

JC
 

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old ammo said:
JC, better go back and read your posts.
Old ammo,

I am well aware of what I have stated. It is your post that does not seem to make any sense...?

Please explain your statement. It makes no sense whatseoever... Are you trying to argue that smoothbore shotguns for deer hunting are not "Outmoded in design, style, or construction"?

Unless that is your belief...then your comment makes zero sense whatsoever... :roll:

JC
 

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TH said:
He is NOT saying that they are not useful and still the best tool for certain types of hunting.

JC...correct me if I mis-represented your intentions.
TH,

As you could see...that was clear as day my statement.

(However, based on the last 3 pages of posts from the "ASSA" crew they felt it to their advantage to paint the picture otherwise... :?)

JC
 

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logankelly said:
Even though I am new to this forum some of the posts I have read on this subject are just insulting to each other so maybe it is time to give this a rest and move on.
Logan,

This has beeen going on since One'r showed up for the first time late last year...he has an agenda, and no voice that you, I, or any other member here, may state will have any affect on his spam...

JC
 

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jeager106 said:
I rather thought for sure that by now you would have posted some HELPFUL information
Jeager,

After reading your entire post I am left thinking the exact same thing about this whole thread?

If you didn't want to discuss whether smoothbores were obsolete, I doesn't make much sense to have titled this thread...Are smoothies obsolete?

It seems to me what you clearly wanted to say...(but didn't)... was...I challenge all rifled slug shooter to post range photos at 100 hundreds so I can knock them...

Then you ask why no one is gullible enough to have done so...?

JC

(As you, and most others members are already aware, I have posted more 100yd rifled shotgun range test results on this board then any other single member....If anyone wants to review them for research needs, that is the purpose the "search" function fulfills.... :wink: )
 

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jeager106 said:
:Well I kinda knew this would happen when I deliberately opened the thread the way I did with pics to back up my statements.
Pics and 40 YEARS of experience with smoothbores and Foster type slugs.
Jeager,

I forgot to add...you were not the only who knew what would happen when you deliberately opened a thread like this...

The only thing I can't understand is what "pics" you are refering to that "back up your statements"?

The one "pic" (singular), that I have seen you post is that of a 50yd target that suggests that the gun and ammo used to fire it was not even capable of holding 4 MOA...?

Are there some other "pics" you are refering to that you posted?

JC
 

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Jeager,

I too respect your opinion, and most of all your ability to stay above the fray...

I am simply pointing out that this entire thread has been a circular conversation...you saying rifled slug guns perform no better than smoothbores...members asking you to post pictures supporting your smoothbore accuracy claims...then you saying rifled slug guns are no better than smoothbores...?

This whole verbal debate would have ended 5 pages ago if you simply posted evidence of the consistent 100yd accuracy you have been claiming you achieve at 100yds.

Speaking for myself only...I see this thread as being as pointless now as it was 5 pages ago...a simple rehash of an age old debate with zero factual evidence to support any new claims...

JC
 

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ppro said:
jcchartboy

How is the battle to keep your hunting rights going in your neck of the woods.
Funny you should ask...a number of folks I know from the NJ hunting community and in particular NJ Hunter.com were pivitol in helping create a huge political success for sportsmen in recent elections...

JC

Don't mess with the sportsmen
Posted by Scott L. Bach, Esq. November 08, 2007 1:26PM

A hard lesson was learned on election day in New Jersey's 12th legislative district, when incumbent State Senator Ellen Karcher (D-12) and incumbent Assemblyman Mike Panter (D-12) were retired from public service despite the infusion of millions of campaign dollars to save their seats.

That lesson can be summed up this way: don't mess with the sportsmen.

There is one reason and one reason only that these otherwise popular politicians lost their jobs: they went too far in assailing the rights and traditions of law-abiding New Jersey sportsmen and sportswomen.

There are well over a million hunters, anglers, and responsible gun owners in New Jersey. For the most part, they keep to themselves, content to exercise their rights, freedoms and chosen activities without interference. But when aroused to action by over-the-top legislation that threatens to interfere, they can become a force of nature at the polls.

And that's exactly what happened in the 12th district on November 6. Fed up with overzealous legislative attacks, sportsmen and sportswomen turned out in force to register their disapproval with the flip of a voting lever. And register their disapproval they did...

Karcher and Panter were primary sponsors of legislation that would set the stage to end hunting and fishing by removing farmers, biologists, and sportsmen from the Fish & Game Council, and allow the appointment of animal rights extremists in their place. Panter also supported legislation to ban common hunting firearms and to ration guns to law-abiding citizens pre-certified as non-criminals after passing a thorough background investigation.

In the weeks leading up to the election, New Jersey sportsmen mobilized visibly and vocally, with many hundreds showing up at rallies in the 12th district and protesting the Fish & Wildlife bill. This prompted one astute Assemblywoman, Linda Greenstein (D-14), to withdraw her name as a co-sponsor of the bill just prior to the election. Unlike her counterparts in the 12th district, who defended the legislation, Greenstein was re-elected.

New Jersey faces serious problems, including fiscal woes, the mass exodus of businesses and individuals, astronomical housing costs, and excessive taxation. Attacking the rights and traditions of law-abiding sportsmen - who do not cause New Jersey's problems - will not solve any of them.
 

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Jeager,

I should also point out the fact that those targets were posted in response to your discussion of the cost of slugs..those targets were all shot with 9$ slugs..a price you, yourself admitted was not expensive.

The SST's are by no means the most the accurate in the Savage 12ga. That is the whole reason I never responded to your original request to post pics in the first place. I knew that you would immediately start making implications that were not unfounded...

You want a real comparison....very simple...show me a smoothbore shooting 2MOA at 100yds....That is the reasonable abilites of the a good inexpensive rifled slug gun....

Until I see anything close to 2 MOA from a smoothbore I think the suggestion that they are as accurate as a rifled barreled shotgun somewhat laughable. (either they are, or the aren't the pics will tell the tale... :wink: )

JC
 
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