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Here it is, time for the holidays. Guess I must have missed that memo that explained why this nation is no longer concerned with the true meaning of " giving thanks for all we have and all the wonderful rights we all enjoy." Instead it seams to be about black Friday and all the money that is being spent. What ever happened to family gatherings, sharing fellowship with old and trusted friends, and thanking our maker for his blessings upon us. I am not preaching nor am I suggesting that we must all be God fearing people. But it seams to me that this nation has forgot the basics this country was founded on.
What happened to the right of free worship? I was understanding that every person had the right to worship their God any place they felt the need.
Christmas is closing in on us and I hear very little talk, music, or signs about the birth of Christ. All I hear is how it violates some persons right to hear that kind of stuff.
Let me be clear! If you are a person who does not believe in God or any other supreme being, I would gladly fight for your right to believe that. What makes me mad is that same person will not allow me to have the Ten commandments in court, or pray in school, or put Christ in Christmas. Seems kinda like people who believe are on the losing team.
I wonder if our country is heading for something not so pleasent.

GOD, GUTS, and GUNS MADE AMERICA FREE
 

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JOSH S said:
AMEN!! Isn't Christmas celebrating the birthday of our lord and savior. No Christ = No Christmas. I haven't forgotten.
+1

The thing that get's me is not so much that Christ is no longer in CHRISTmas. Even the thought of Christmas being about giving to others is honorable even if it is misguided. What get's to me is the fact that Christmas has become about money, commercialism and the like.
 

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I think it is pretty obvious that the intent of this thread is to generate a discussion about religion. We have a board on this site for Religious topics. I suggest that you delete your original post and re-post it on the Religion board where they discuss these things all the time. The "Off Topic" board is for those subjects which don't fall into any other available category. In this instance, we HAVE an available board. I suggest that you use it.

Edited: The name of the board I was referring to is not "Religion" as I previously called it. It is called "Christians on Shotgunworld". Sorry for the confusion.
 

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JOSH S said:
AMEN!! Isn't Christmas celebrating the birthday of our lord and savior. No Christ = No Christmas. I haven't forgotten.
Neither have I, but it does seem like everyone else has. :cry:

Not every mention of God or Christ has do devolve into a religious debate, Ulysses. This post is more about the commercialization of our holidays and how it sickens some of us than seeking a debate worthy of the Politics forum.

Anyone else noticed how Christmas is referred to as "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas"? I think political correctness has been taken too far and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
 

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I'll quote, "Let me be clear! If you are a person who does not believe in God or any other supreme being, I would gladly fight for your right to believe that. What makes me mad is that same person will not allow me to have the Ten Commandments in court, or pray in school, or put Christ in Christmas. Seems like people who believe are on the losing team. I wonder if our country is headed for something not so pleasant."................................................Kind of contradicting yourself there aren't you? You guys are the ones who are making it a contest. People such as myself never make such a fuss about it. Only you guys do that. I'll quote in particular,"Seems like people who believe are on the losing team." Now why is it a "losing team"? I'll tell you why. Because many who think like you, choose to force religion on others. There is no quicker way to turn someone off, than to preach and tell him/her what is the right way for them to believe. If people would stop cramming religion down everyone's throat, step back and look from the outside, they might understand that that they are Not on any "losing team". There is no us and them unless you make it that way. So what gives? You are Not "losing" anything. You still have the right to believe whatever you want. You still have the right to send your kids to a Christian/Catholic or whatever kind of school you wish. You still have the right to go to any church you choose. Even start one of your own. That will never be taken away from you. Even though I don't think like you do. I too, would fight by your side under any circumstances that allowed it. No I'm not a military man. But hell yes, I give undying respect for what you and others have sacrificed for all of us. You truly do give the ultimate sacrifice. Thank you very much. Now don't I deserve the right to send my kids to a public school where they can learn to think for, and be themselves?.....................If they have the Ten Commandments in court or prayer in school, will you agree to other religions being displayed or taught in court and school on the same level as your Christian beliefs? I have my doubts about that. Experience has taught me this. Believe me I've been preached to. It's really quite annoying. You get numb to it all, but every now and then you just need to vent a little because it is very frustrating that religious people only see one way and go around telling everyone else that they got it pinned...............................Back to the military, I lost a friend of mine who joined the Navy years ago. I also have a brother over there in Iraq, a buddy from work just shipped out this month, and 4 other friends are on their way. I pray for their safe return in my own way. I don't need to display it all over the walls because it's in my heart. No one can touch that and God knows it. :wink: ............................ Relax man. Next thing you know this will get all blown out of proportion and get long and drawn out like it always does. :roll: I agree with Ulysses. Put it in the Christian forum where they can disect all my words and twist it into whatever they desire. Merry Christmas oldcorps. Best wishes. :wink:
 

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What happened to the right of free worship? I was understanding that every person had the right to worship their God any place they felt the need.
You have the right of worship, so long as it does not infringe upon the rights of others not to worship as you do. That's it inna nutshell.

I'll say it again... be careful how loud you protest. Didn't anyone ever wonder how Christmas survives as a Federal holiday, at all? If the question ever gets sent to the Supreme Court - we lose. The Court will never explain giving Federal preference to a Christian holiday and, believe me - business and the government aren't gonna want to pay for a bunch of other Federal holidays. :wink:
 

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I am not to worried about myself. I am only in my mid 20's and I have experinced many joyous Chrstmas's with my family. I am worried than when I someday have children of my own they won't know the same Christmas I knew as a kid. I remember Christmas being EVERYWHERE at church, school, stores, shopping malls, and regular old christmas lights.

Now all Thanksgiving and Christmas is about is buying presents on Black Friday and acting like animals just to save a few dollars...

Now alot of places are even using the word Christmas. You won't find the word Christmas in a Target retail store and the word will soon be gone from the english laguage!

Enough ranting for tonight...
 

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Christmas is whatever you make of it....me and my family will continue to enjoy Christmas and my kids will continue to understand the TRUE meaning of the holiday...if you want Christmas to be something more than presents, then do something to change it....it's up to you.
 

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What completely pisses me off is those people who say they don't believe in Christ and that they should have the right to support any belief they want.

GREAT!!

Now, make sure you're at WORK on Christmas and Christmas Eve since you would never take a day off knowing it was based on a RELIGIOUS holiday would you? :roll: :evil: :roll:
 

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I'm glad we've got that religious forum down there so us folks that have no religion don't have to go through stuff like this :D .
 

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old corps said:
Here it is, time for the holidays. Guess I must have missed that memo that explained why this nation is no longer concerned with the true meaning of " giving thanks for all we have and all the wonderful rights we all enjoy." Instead it seams to be about black Friday and all the money that is being spent. What ever happened to family gatherings, sharing fellowship with old and trusted friends, and thanking our maker for his blessings upon us.
I agree that the commercial side of things gets far too much attention, but I believe that family gatherings etc. are still a major influence.

old corps said:
I am not preaching nor am I suggesting that we must all be God fearing people. But it seams to me that this nation has forgot the basics this country was founded on. What happened to the right of free worship?
Nothing. It is alive and well and probably stronger in the USA than ever.

old corps said:
Christmas is closing in on us and I hear very little talk, music, or signs about the birth of Christ.
That's funny, every Christian church has it plastered all over. I've seen numerous crosses and creches put up in people's yards already, and it is still November. From what I can see, the story of Christ is alive and well in the USA.

old corps said:
What makes me mad is that same person will not allow me to have the Ten commandments in court,
That courthouse doesn't belong to you personally - it belongs to the public. So you have no right to put your religious beliefs on display there.

old corps said:
...or pray in school,
I'm a school teacher, and I can guarantee you that kids pray in school - especially before I give a test! What is not allowed - and should not be allowed - is for the school to lead kids in prayer. That would be imposing one set of religious beliefs on everyone's kids - which is wrong. The kids can pray all they want AND they can pray the way they were taught in their home and their church.

old corps said:
... or put Christ in Christmas.
I've never seen anyone try to prevent anyone else from celebrating a Christian Christmas. Just don't expect to use the government to participate.

SShooterZ said:
What completely pisses me off is those people who say they don't believe in Christ and that they should have the right to support any belief they want.

GREAT!!

Now, make sure you're at WORK on Christmas and Christmas Eve since you would never take a day off knowing it was based on a RELIGIOUS holiday would you?
Actually, if you study the history of Christmas, it was a Pagan holiday long before it was a Christian holiday. In fact, some Christian sects refuse to celebrate Christmas and consider it blasphemous to do so!!!!

Did you know that the Puritans did not celebrate Christmas?

Did you know that it was actually ILLEGAL to celebrate Christmas in some New England states at one time?

Did you know that the earliest Christmas cards said nothing about Christ? The very first one showed a family having a toast. It was criticized for showing children drinking wine.

Here is a link to a gallery of vintage Christmas cards - many are from the 1800's and early 1900's. You'll be surprised how secular most of them are.
http://www.emotionscards.com/museum/xmas.html

Contrary to popular belief, Christmas has always had a strong secular and commercial element. The commecial element is stronger today than ever, but it has always been there.
 

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Well for my 2 cents worth. We should celebrate the birth, life and death of Jesus Christ every day in our hearts.
He is there every day for us, likewise we should be there every day for Him.
 

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SShooterZ said:
Now, make sure you're at WORK on Christmas and Christmas Eve since you would never take a day off knowing it was based on a RELIGIOUS holiday would you?
If your employer said to you "Hey, SSZ, we're going to give you three days off of paid vacation the last week of October to celebrate Halloween, go do whatever you want with those days." you'd tell 'em "thanks but no thanks, I'd prefer to come in and work because that's a pagan holiday"?
 

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Redbeard gets my vote for Favorite Moderator. Studies history and is fair and open-minded. I like this guy.

I don't care what anybody's religion is, because that's between them and whatever they believe in. None of my business. I just get tired of the whole "we DO have Freedom of Religion (as long as you're Christian)" kinda stuff.
 

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Ulysses said:
We have a board on this site for Religious topics.
Indeed we do, but would a discussion like this be welcome or treated fairly there? I assume it was called "Christians on Shotgunworld" for a reason, as opposed to "Religion" or "Spiritual Discussion" or something similar.
 

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If I didn't believe in the holiday, why would I celebrate it?

And there in lies exactly my point. People don't complain about the holiday when it benefits them, but God forbid if it was something that inconvenienced them, there would be marches and protests all over the place against Christmas.

redbeard said:
Actually, if you study the history of Christmas, it was a Pagan holiday long before it was a Christian holiday. In fact, some Christian sects refuse to celebrate Christmas and consider it blasphemous to do so!!!!

Did you know that the Puritans did not celebrate Christmas?

Did you know that it was actually ILLEGAL to celebrate Christmas in some New England states at one time?

Did you know that the earliest Christmas cards said nothing about Christ? The very first one showed a family having a toast. It was criticized for showing children drinking wine.

Here is a link to a gallery of vintage Christmas cards - many are from the 1800's and early 1900's. You'll be surprised how secular most of them are.
http://www.emotionscards.com/museum/xmas.html

Contrary to popular belief, Christmas has always had a strong secular and commercial element. The commecial element is stronger today than ever, but it has always been there.
Christmas is a Christian holiday that celebrates the birth of Jesus Christ. It may have derived from Pagan holidays, but it definitely was NOT a pagan holiday.

The celebration of this day as Jesus's birth date was probably influenced by pagan (unchristian) festivals held at that time. The ancient Romans held year-end celebrations to honor Saturn, their harvest god; and Mithras, the god of light. Various peoples in northern Europe held festivals in mid-December to celebrate the end of the harvest season. As part of all these celebrations, the people prepared special foods, decorated their homes with greenery, and joined in singing and gift giving. These customs gradually became part of the Christmas celebration.

Puritans didn't believe a LOT of what the Christian religion practices, such as God only saving those he wishes, not everyone and that Jesus died only for a chosen few. Definitely not the same as the Christian belief. So I'm not suprised by what you posted. It most likely is very true.

Catholic grade school, Catholic high school and Jesuit university taught me something about Catholism and Christianity. ;)
 

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More people in this country need to be Jewish. Then maybe we could take a week off once a year instead of a day or two.
 

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SShooterZ said:
If I didn't believe in the holiday, why would I celebrate it?
I'm not asking if you'd celebrate it, I'm asking if you'd take the freebie days off. Your employer doesn't require you to go to a Christian church to get the Xmas days off, do they? Or would you actually come in to work while everyone else was off duck hunting, fishing, or taking the Mrs. out to dinner?

And there in lies exactly my point. People don't complain about the holiday when it benefits them, but God forbid if it was something that inconvenienced them, there would be marches and protests all over the place against Christmas.
Do people where you live usually complain about things that benefit them? Do they usually enjoy inconvenience without accompanying benefit?

On both of these I doubt the answer is yes, so I wonder why you're bringing this up as if you're pointing out some sort of dichotomy.
 

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There absolutely is a dichotomy taking place in the example I am saying.

The comment was made that "Didn't anyone ever wonder how Christmas survives as a Federal holiday, at all?" I completely agree. The same people who refuse to say the pledge of allegiance, because the word GOD is in it, sure don't mind taking Christmas off even though it is based on a CHRISTIAN HOLIDAY.

I'm not sure I can make that any clearer for you.

It is hypocritical.

If their beliefs are that strong, they should protest ALL of the religious practices related to God, not just the ones that don't really inconvience them. It's contradictory in my mind to do otherwise.

Obviously, it doesn't bother you that people are like that, more power to you. Frankly, it pisses me off. Luckily for both of us, this is America and we are both entitled to our opinions.
 
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