[CRG]

I am the new kid on the block so to speak, but I have a nagging question about
double barrels and O/U shotguns and automatic ejectors.

I question the idea of only offering guns with AUTOMATIC ejectors. Some of the older
guns were offered without automatic ejectors, I believe.

I personally do not like the spent shells jumping out when I open the action. I realize that
automatic ejectors can be defeated, but why are they not offered by the manufactures?

There are two issues that I find with them. 1. For the hunter, leaving plastic hulls in the environment, is in my opinion, not good. It was bad enough to see paper hulls lying in a corn field
or wheat field, but plastic hulls will not go away for a looooong time.

2. For the clay shooter, if they reload, kicking out hulls is counterproductive. I realize that there is a market for recycled hulls, but it just seems so simple to pluck the hull out of the barrel and put in your pouch or pocket.

Just my quirks, but I am interested in a discussion. Flame away if you must, but it is an honest question.

 

[BarryD]

"Automatic" and "ejector" are two different terms with separate meanings.

"Ejector" is the term for any device that actively removes the spent hull or brass from a gun when the action is opened, either manually or automatically. A 1911, a bolt-action rifle, and an 870 all eject. When you open the action, they spit out whatever is in the chamber.

"Automatic ejector" means that the gun will only eject hulls from fired barrels. Shoot only the right barrel, and only the right hull will be ejected. The left hull will remain in the chamber.

A shotgun without ejectors is called an EXTRACTOR gun. All break-action shotguns have extractors that lift the shells above the chamber face for removal when the gun is opened. Ejector guns just have additional spring-loaded mechanisms that spit them out.

Some extractor guns are available. The current BT-99, some side-by-sides, and some junk O/Us are extractor-only, for example. Old Beretta O/Us (BL series) were extractor guns.

That said, it's easy to catch hulls as they are ejected. In the field, I find automatic ejectors to be useful, even though most of the time I catch my hulls right away and stuff them in my vest for disposal.

Why? I have a couple extractor side-by-sides, and it's easy to fire one barrel, absent-mindedly replace the wrong shell while sending my dog to fetch, and end up with a "click" when the next bird flushes. An automatic ejector spits out the correct hull. Also, if I want to reload quickly, I can let the hulls fly, reload, and fire off two more shots. There's plenty of time to pick up my hulls after the birds are gone. The last thing I need when hunting fast birds in very difficult terrain where every step could mean a bad fall, while handling a gundog, is one more thing to have to look at. Anything I can do "blind", without having to think about it, means I can concentrate on the more important things. As you might surmise, I seldom hunt in cornfields.

Also, I never have understood people who think it's impossible to catch hulls. It's easy, a lot easier than hitting most upland game birds to begin with! It's autoloaders that are the real litterbug guns. I try to pick up my hulls when I use a bottom-feeder. A lot of slobs don't seem to, and I pick up their hulls too. It's my access that's threatened by these jerks, unfortunately.

Beretta's new SV series allows the user to turn the ejector on and off. The problems with the design I've seen reported here all seem to involve that feature. It might be a good idea in theory, but in the real world maybe it doesn't work so well.

 

[johnpe]

I have SxS guns with both extractors and ejectors. I prefer the ejectors. Most O/U's come with ejectors. With either of these action types, I rarely allow the hulls to eject to the ground and only then at a gun club using hulls I don't want to save. The ejectors kick the hulls into my hand and I put them into my shooting pouch, into the barrel provided for the purpose, or into a pocket in my vest if I am hunting. It's really a convenience thing with me. Guns with extractors are slower to reload since you have to pull out the hulls, but when shooting targets it's not really a problem. When in a hot corner shooting birds, it can cause you to pass up a shot or two. A word about pumps and semi-autos. I catch the hulls when they eject from my pumps when I limit the number of shots to two, but that's not possible with semi-autos. If you hunt with semi's and most times with pumps, expect to find and pick up your hulls.

Johnpe

 

[Seamus O'Caiside]

Once you learn the technique for it, it actually is easier and faster to take the empty hulls in your hand and put them in a pocket with ejectors than without. That's why there isn't much demand for guns without ejectors.

 

[clayshard]

Some guns can easily be converted like these Brownings without going to the gun smith

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=145108

 

[casonet]

Sorry guys, but I never got the technique down for "catching" my ejected shells. I know, I watch people do it all the time, but I can't seem to master it. I saw a film of Vince Hancock do it so fast that you can't even follow what he does, then I saw my daughter's boyfriend let both of them fly straight up in the air and he caught both with one hand as they came down. I have converted my Cynergy to extractors and I absolutely love it. People who shoot it also like the convenience. I also know owners of the newer Berettas who have also converted their guns to extractors using that convenient little screw head with a 1/2 turn. Now I don't worry too much if I lose a shell or two in the field of hunting. The plastic wil eventually go away, but that lead shot will never go away and we don't seem to worry too much about that do we? If it does, then shoot steel.

 

[BarryD]

You don't have to do circus tricks. You just have to put your right hand over the top lever and let the hull or hulls fly right into it.

 

[CRG]

Thank you for your replies. It is encouraging to see that I am not alone in this issue.
I no longer hunt but I find it annoying to see empty hulls in a field. It presents a bad
image of hunters per se. As was stated earlier, it also may affect YOUR access rights.

As far as the clay shooters go, I just think it would be easier to remove the hulls and place
them in the bucket, but if some prefer not to do so, I am good with that too.

I had the ejectors silenced on my CAS shotgun which is a Russian double barrel. For the job it does, it is just fine. My only other shotguns are field grade Browning 20 gauge SXS and an older
Remington 12 gauge 11-87. Not high end, but they serve my purposes. I have installed a
shell catcher on my semi auto, and I attempt to catch the spent 20's but it is a PITA in my opinion.

I would think that the manufacture would save some bucks by offering a lower end with extractors rather than ejectors. But I could be and probably am wrong on that score.

Fact is there is not a lot that can be done about the 11-87 other than the add on shell catcher, and I am not certain that I want to spend the money on the BSS for the little I shoot it. I sure am not qualified to do the change over myself. It would have to be done by a smith.

Since I do not reload 20 gauge I guess it is a moot point.

 

[BarryD]

When you see lost of hulls in the dirt, they are generally not from break-action shooters...

The hulls I see generally have these things in common:

1. They're 12 Gauge, where 12 Gauge guns are the least appropriate for the birds.
2. They're Wal-Mart bulk packs, most often Winchester Universals.
3. I usually find several at a time, meaning someone has fired a lot of shots and probably didn't hit anything.
4. As likely as not, there will be fast food wrappers and other trash around the parking area.

These people "hunt" during the season that falls between the season when they leave broken bottles and piles of garbage at the lake, and the season when they leave broken bottles and piles of garbage at the sledding hill.

They don't represent the serious outdoor enthusiast of any stripe, though.

 

[casonet]

CRG,

There are two newer Beretta models; the SV10 Perennia, and the SV10 Prevail. Both have a "switch" that allows the user to activate/deactivate the ejectors on the gun. Beretta must have seen a large enough market for that feature to cause them to put it on their newer models. Personally, I like it. You can have it both ways.

 

[Ka6otm]

It's very easy to catch them and I much prefer them to extractors as extractors are very clumsy for me.

I've been using them for an awful lot of years, so many that I don't even remember how long it's been.

And yes, I'm a reloader. I would spend a long time looking for any empty that got away from me as I see empties the same way I see money sitting on the ground.

 

[CRG]

When you see lost of hulls in the dirt, they are generally not from break-action shooters...

The hulls I see generally have these things in common:

1. They're 12 Gauge, where 12 Gauge guns are the least appropriate for the birds.
2. They're Wal-Mart bulk packs, most often Winchester Universals.
3. I usually find several at a time, meaning someone has fired a lot of shots and probably didn't hit anything.
4. As likely as not, there will be fast food wrappers and other trash around the parking area.

These people "hunt" during the season that falls between the season when they leave broken bottles and piles of garbage at the lake, and the season when they leave broken bottles and piles of garbage at the sledding hill.

They don't represent the serious outdoor enthusiast of any stripe, though.

Alas, I feel that you are correct in that appraisal of the situation. The really down side is that it gives everybody that carries a gun or fishing rod into the field a bad name. We get painted with a broad brush. I have no idea or suggestions on how to fix the problem, so I suppose I will continue to pick up after these slobs, same as others.

Were I younger, another trip to the field for a brace of pheasants or perhaps a few Bob Whites with a nice 20 or 28 two barreled shotgun would be great, but I am afraid these old legs will not tolerate it.

Casonet, I will try to find one and take a look at it. I need another shotgun like I need another hole in the head, but it is about want, not about need I guess.

 

[BarryD]

It's very easy to catch them and I much prefer them to extractors as extractors are very clumsy for me.

This is especially true of smaller bores, and with cold-weather gloves.

 

[sneem]

I have been shooting with ejectors for so long, I now find it uncomfortable to use the extractors on my nice, old Fox Sterlingworth. With the ejector guns, you simply put your hand over the breech, push the lever with your thumb, open the barrels and the hulls go right into the palm of your hand. Couldn't be easier. It has become an unconscious act to push the lever, grasp the hulls and drop them in the back of the vest. I don't even think about it anymore. With the Fox, it has tight bores and the hulls tend to stick even when lifted out by the extractor. My stubby old fingers have a hard time grasping them and it is a PITA. Most upscale guns come with ejectors because for the most part they are easier to use.

 

[BarryD]

CRG, there's a natural hot spring up in the mountains near where I live. Two guys -- not young guys -- built a series of pools to sit in by backpacking in bag after bag of concrete mix, up a steep singletrack trail, mixing it by hand using spring water, and hand-carrying rocks to build the pools. Then they set up an elaborate system of pipes to a hot and a cold water source, so the temperature can be regulated. It's an amazing piece of work, HARD work, at the top of a beautiful ridge, with a view of a canyon that leads down to a whitewater river.

While most people who hike up there and enjoy the springs are friendly, respectful, and self-policing (e.g. a "no glass" rule), a small number of real jerks keeps going up there, leaving litter, glass bottles, some broken, etc. all over. So it's traditional for visitors to bring a good, strong garbage bag or two, clean up, and pack the trash down the hill when we leave.

It makes me angry that people wreck a beautiful place. But when I clean up, I think of the two guys who built the pools by hand, far up a steep trail, with backpacks. And I think of all the great people that hike up and hang out there. It's for THEM that I clean up, not the jerks who litter.

 

[CRG]

Thankfully there are people that are motivated to do such things for the rest of us.
Sad that there are people so dense to not see this. Thank you for your efforts to
police such a place.

Being new to the forum, I just noticed that I am limited to 60,000 characters to a post.
I know I am a wendy fellow, but even I do not have that much to say.

I do appreciate the lines of a nice double gun, or even a well made semi auto. I appreciate this place to talk about them. Thank you all for the information that you have shared. I guess now I
am a tad more tolerant of the ejectors on my sxs.

 

[DEG]

Guns with automatic ejectors are a vast improvement over the old extractor guns and there is no benefit to the old extractor over the ejector.

It is a very simple task to learn the timing of your ejectors and place your hand over the hulls to prevent them from flying. They also eject them far enough out of the chamber into the palm of your hand to make them much easier to remove from the chamber. It's often a PIA to dig hulls from and extractor gun; especially if wearing gloves.

Automatic ejectors are not why hunters are leaving hulls in the field and clay shooter are not letting their hulls fly from their automatic ejectors.

 

[Multiflora]

It is not a bad idea to slow down when we shoot....was so in 2011 and is still so today.

 

[casonet]

I have skeet shooting buddies who open their guns and let the ejectors do their work and my friends somehow catch both hulls with their right hand about 18 inches from the gun. Ive tried, but I just can't do it. At matches, Ive seen the same move but instead of catching, they use their hand to hit the hulls to the ground. I can't do that either, so I just cup my hand over the hulls and eject them into my palm

 

[sneem2]

This one crawled back out of the crypt.
Same answer ten years later. Put your hand over the breech, push the lever with your thumb, drop the barrels, shells pop into your hand, drop them in the vest. None of this catching them in the air gymnastics.
I don’t know why this topic keeps coming back to life. Ejectors are so easy they become an unconscious act. Digging hulls out of extractors with my fat, old fingers is a PITA.
I agree most of the shells littering the ground are done from autos and pumps.