I can think of no good reason to buy a Howa pump over a Remington 870.

Not sure how relevant this is, but I once owned a Smith & Wesson 1000 automatic that was made by Howa. It was definitely a nice looking gun and it performed fine, but offered ZERO advantage over a Remington 1100 and had maintenance issues that the 1100 didn't share. There simply wasn't any point to it.

 

I don't know much about shotguns. I mainly shoot rifles (and I don't know that much about them either)

I just looked up the sw 1000 and it seems they are a decent shotgun with a new "piston". (Old type would melt)

I'd like to eventually get both the s&w 1000 and the rem 1100 so I'd have a semi auto shotgun from each of the old world giants. (I don't know if colt had shotguns)

I generally stay away from the new/newer Remingtons and other companies under the same umbrella (Freedom /Cerebus?). I would get an older Remington 1100.

I read the s&w 3000 pump (Howa) was as good as a 870 and didn't have a flaw the 870 had. The police had to train for that 870 flaw/malfunction.

I like all makes of guns. I'm just curious about the Howa's since they have a good rep and the prices are very reasonable.

Edited to add:
I now have rem 1100's and s&w 1000's on my watchlist. My poor wallet!

 

There is nothing wrong with any piston in the Smith and Wesson (or Mossberg-same gun).
It is the recoil buffer that melts and goos up the action (which is inside the magazine tube.)
That is caused by ignorant owners that cannot help squirting a little lube of whatever kind into the recoil action.
These gas assemblies NEED to be run absolutely dry.
As is often the case, owners are the cause of the problem with this shotgun design.
I have owned two of these. Great shotguns, and lighter than an 1100. I only let them go because I was concerned with future parts availability, which will never be a factor with the 1100.
I have also owned several 1100s. I am a pheasant hunter. They have one big problem for me. They are too heavy. In 12 gauge anyway.

Have fun on your shotgun journey. I have.

 

I'd like to eventually get both the s&w 1000 and the rem 1100 so I'd have a semi auto shotgun from each of the old world giants. (I don't know if colt had shotguns) . . .

Well, if you're trying for a complete semi-auto collection, you probably should add Winchester, Browning, Ithaca, Beretta and Franchi to your shopping list. In most circles, those companies would make it onto a list of "old world giants" long before most folks would remember that Howa ever made shotguns.

Careful about heading down that "got to have them all" road. It's a pretty long journey.

 

There is nothing wrong with any piston in the Smith and Wesson (or Mossberg-same gun).
It is the recoil buffer that melts and goos up the action (which is inside the magazine tube.)
That is caused by ignorant owners that cannot help squirting a little lube of whatever kind into the recoil action.
These gas assemblies NEED to be run absolutely dry.
As is often the case, owners are the cause of the problem with this shotgun design.
I have owned two of these. Great shotguns, and lighter than an 1100. I only let them go because I was concerned with future parts availability, which will never be a factor with the 1100.
I have also owned several 1100s. I am a pheasant hunter. They have one big problem for me. They are too heavy. In 12 gauge anyway.

Have fun on your shotgun journey. I have.

The Smith & Wesson 1000 was the worst shotgun I ever owned. Complete junk.

 

I have a Winchester sx1. I may end up divorced by the time I collect the other makes.

For the Howa, I'm mostly curious to see if their shotguns are as good as their rifles.

The Howa marine grade pump runs around $150. The Remington 870 Marine runs around $650

I think I just talked myself into "needing" that $150 Howa. I'll do a review after I get it.

If it works well, I'll try the semi next

 

Winchester NEVER had a decent semi auto shotgun until the Super X 1. It has a known flaw as built, but the pieces are available to fix it.
There was never a flaw with the 870. It was operator error. Nevertheless Remington implemented a solution so even clumsy newbies can run with out fear.

 

Winchester NEVER had a decent semi auto shotgun until the Super X 1. It has a known flaw as built, but the pieces are available to fix it.
There was never a flaw with the 870. It was operator error. Nevertheless Remington implemented a solution so even clumsy newbies can run with out fear.

I'll take the bait; what is this problem that people have/had? Other than too much lube on extremely cold days, I've never seen a malf in an 870.

 

I'll take the bait; what is this problem that people have/had? Other than too much lube on extremely cold days, I've never seen a malf in an 870.

I'm assuming he's talking about the guns dumping shells when *****-footing around with the pump action. I seem to recall reading that they changed the shell lifter at some point . . . or something like that.

 

Due to the 3000, Remington responded with the flex tab for newer 870's

 

Due to the 3000, Remington responded with the flex tab for newer 870's

Wow, I never realized that Howa shotguns were so influential. Learn something new every day . . . :wink:

 

Due to the 3000, Remington responded with the flex tab for newer 870's

Wow, I never realized that Howa shotguns were so influential. Learn something new every day . . . :wink:

I did not know Howa was making rifles for Sako either, unless something changed recently. I know Howa made a short lived copy of an older Sako model. Howa does make the Vanguard line for Weatherby but, are totally different from Mark V.

 

My bad. I didn't check the date of the article.

Howa may no longer be making rifles for Sako. It was only for 1 or 2 models. Probably Sako's "budget" line.

I read somewhere that the Howas are built similar to Sakos. More so than a newer Tikka.

I have an older Tikka (595?) that is supposedly built similar to a Sako. My friend has a Howa. One day I'll compare them. I can't afford a Sako, so can't make a true comparison unless I talk my friend into getting a Sako

If those 2 rifles are Sakos, could you adopt me?

 

Well I guess all the folks that have bought 2019 Howa/Legacy shotguns don't hang around here.

So I took a leap of faith and blindly ordered a Legacy (Howa) 12 ga semi Pointer with Black Camo polymer stock instead of the marine grade pump shotgun. It was approx $ 315. Shipping is free to the 48 and $25 to Hawaii. I took the lifetime warranty from the dealer since it was only $15.

I normally buy vetted products because I don't want to pay to be a "tester" of a new product. Hope it is durable and reliable.

For some reason I suspect the 2019 Legacy Pointers and 2019 Howa Phenomas are just refreshed/updated/refined versions of semi's they have been selling for decades.

I'll update in January after I've spent some time with it

 

The one pointer auto shotgun I saw was made by Armsan and looked to be the same action as the Weatherby SA-08 or Tristar G2. When you get your gun look at where it was made.

 

The one pointer auto shotgun I saw was made by Armsan and looked to be the same action as the Weatherby SA-08 or Tristar G2. When you get your gun look at where it was made.

Oh . . . now this thread makes sense . . . I kept thinking "when did Howa start making shotguns again? . . . . I should have known we weren't actually talking about a shotgun MADE by Howa, but rather a shotgun SOLD by Howa.

 

I really don't think Howa has anything to do with the shotguns. They are shotguns sold by Legacy Sports that are imported from Turkey.

 

Dang. I really hope the shotgun is made by Howa. Oh well. I'll find out when it arrives.

If it is Turkish, I may return it. I ordered it from one of the largest stores on the web. It was in the Howa shotgun category/group. If Howa really does sell Turkish guns under its name than I guess it technically is a "Howa". My friend bought a Honda suv and didn't know it was basically an Isuzu Rodeo.

The Howa Phenoma shotgun looks just like/similar to the Pointer so that also had me thinking the Pointer was by Howa. (Besides it being in the shotguns by Howa menu)

I'll find out next week.

 

I looked at images of the Weatherby PA08 and the Tristar Viper G2 at the same site that has the Pointer. The 2019 Pointers and the 2019 Phenomas that I've been looking at have a different trigger guard, magazine cap and vent rib barrel. The handguard/foregrip looks different too.

That said, in the Howa category there are other Pointers that do look like the PA08 and Viper G2. So depending on which model you get, it could be a Howa (or at least a Turkish shotgun sold by Howa to Legacy?) or a Turkish shotgun.

I'll find out next week

For anyone that has an old shotgun that was made by Howa for another company like s&w or mossberg, are there any Howa markings on the parts like the barrel or the receiver?

I'll try calling Legacy too. Should have done that in the first place.

 

For anyone that has an old shotgun that was made by Howa for another company like s&w or mossberg, are there any Howa markings on the parts like the barrel or the receiver?

It's been years since I sold my S&W 1000s so I don't recall if it was marked Howa. It was definitely stamped "Made in Japan" though.

 

My bad. I didn't check the date of the article.

Howa may no longer be making rifles for Sako. It was only for 1 or 2 models. Probably Sako's "budget" line.

I read somewhere that the Howas are built similar to Sakos. More so than a newer Tikka.

I have an older Tikka (595?) that is supposedly built similar to a Sako. My friend has a Howa. One day I'll compare them. I can't afford a Sako, so can't make a true comparison unless I talk my friend into getting a Sako

If those 2 rifles are Sakos, could you adopt me?

I don't think Howa ever made a rifle for Sako. Howa made a copy of a Sako in the late 60's. Current Tikka and Sako rifles are more like each other than they are to a Howa. The Weatherby Vanguard is pretty much just a rebadged Howa 1500.

The Tikka 595/695 is pretty similar to the Tikka T3. The overall quality on the 595/695 was better than the T3 that replaced them. They also looked and felt similar to the Sako 75. The 595 being the short action and the 695 the long action. I had a 595 in .223 rem that was W/B that I sold when I switched my bolt rifles over the synthetic models many years ago. I always compared the 595/695 to the Sako 75 like I did with the Browning A-Bolt to the Weatherby Mark V. All great guns with the Tikka/Browning being a less costly option to the Sako/Weatherby.

The front gun is a Sako 75 Finnlight in .308 Win with a 24" SS Douglas air gauged barrel. The back gun is a Weatherby Mark V Accumark in .300 Wby mag. Both sport Zeiss Conquest scopes 4.5x14 44mm.

Sorry for the hijack!

 

No mention of Howa on my S&W 1000 super 12. Just made in Japan to S&W spec. I have all the literature and there is also no mention of Howa.

It has been a very good goose gun.

The recoil pad, which I'm sure is original, says made in Italy.

 

https://gunnewsdaily.com/howa-1500-review/
Here is the article that mentions Howa previously made rifles for Sako

I may have gotten the Howa / Tikka / Sako similarity a little wrong. I think it was the Howa 1500 is more similar to a Sako than a Tikka T3. I'm no SME so please take that with a grain of salt. I'm old too. If I find the article again, I'll post a link.

Bladeswitcher/mcfarmer - thanks for the info!

Worc - Nice tools!! Your kids are lucky! Watch out when your at the top of the stairs, you may get a helpful push down the stairs.

The webstore rep emailed the Pointer was made by Legacy. I have an inquiry into Legacy.

 

The webstore rep emailed the Pointer was made by Legacy. I have an inquiry into Legacy.

Pretty sure Legacy is an importer, not a manufacturer.

 

I had a feeling the web store rep was just going to repeat what is listed on their website. Probably have tons of emails and calls and don't have time to find out where it is made. (I work with external customers too, so I understand)

I ordered the Howa "marine grade" pumpgun. It is about $180 to my ffl. $150 + $22 insured shipping + $7 for a lifetime warranty that also covers shipping. No Hawaii state sales tax...small win...saved $7 there.

My friend has the mossberg marine. I'll see if I can borrow it to compare.