[jordman]

Hey Guys, new to this forum but not new to shotguns.

I wanted an inexpensive O/U for casual clays and hunting. I am a lefty and saw there was a lefty version of the Drake. I picked one up a few weeks ago. I always pattern them to see how they shoot before using them much. Was a bit dissapointed in the barrel regulation. I was seeing 4-5" divergence in impact at only 13 yards. Was a good 6" at 21 yards. The upper barrel shot pretty good about as i'd expect. The bottom one actually shot low. Really got in my head and I wasn't happy with that result. Yes I tried multiple chokes and did it on 2 different days, it really was a regulation issue. Contacted CZ and they quickly told me to send it back, which I was very happy about. Fast overnight shipping all expenses paid by CZ. They currently have it and from what I hear it could be 6 weeks before they finish. Curious what you all think they can do about that? Wondering if they would just swap the barrels out, hopefully with a set that has been verified. This model has no side or mid-rib so i'm not sure if they can actually disconnect the barrel hanger at the end and pull the barrels together more (easier said than done i'm sure). I don't need perfection, but that many inches off at such a short distance was just too much. I could not see anything visually that would indicate a barrel regulation issue - everything looked good to my eye. My Browning Citori CX is nearly perfect for regulation. I don't expect it to be that good, but a couple inches at 20 yards doesn't seem like too much to ask. Otherwise, I was pretty happy with the fit/finish and functionality of the gun.

 

[RandyWakeman]

They currently have it and from what I hear it could be 6 weeks before they finish. Curious what you all think they can do about that?

Nothing-- those barrel sets cannot be "re-regulated"-- it is trash.

 

[jordman]

Fair enough. So they will probably just send me a new barrel set. And I suppose they will not bother checking them and that will be on me!

 

[StinkeyPete]

1. It's not a high budget shotgun
2. CZ is taking care of you
That sounds like a pretty fair deal to me, and why I have a CZ for my rainy day shotgun.

 

[jordman]

Agree, i'm not disgruntled. I MAY be a little annoyed if the new barrels have similar or new issues. But so far I'm cautiously optimistic that I'll be happy in the end. Hey If I have to send it back 3 times so be it. Just a minor annoyance I guess if they are paying the shipping! Maybe if enough people send these things back they will start verifying barrel regulation before they ship things out.

 

[RandyWakeman]

Fair enough. So they will probably just send me a new barrel set. And I suppose they will not bother checking them and that will be on me!

You'll have to ask them. You can also ask them what their barrel regulation standards are, but you won't like the answer.

 

[Triggw]

My Redhead Premier Target shot 4 inches left and 2 inches low at 20 yards. They replaced the gun.

 

[jordman]

My Redhead Premier Target shot 4 inches left and 2 inches low at 20 yards. They replaced the gun.

And the new one shot satisfactory? I guess it's luck of the draw with regulation....i'll be honest, it seems like black magic to me. More guns should just use adjustable systems to avoid all the warranty work.

 

[Triggw]

And the new one shot satisfactory? I guess it's luck of the draw with regulation....i'll be honest, it seems like black magic to me. More guns should just use adjustable systems to avoid all the warranty work.

The new one shoots 1 to 2 inches left at 20 yards. That's a somewhat rough estimate from eyeballing the patterns on paper, and it's close enough. I shoot skeet with this gun, and if the pattern is off a couple of inches, that's the least of my problems. And FWIW, the new gun has much nicer wood than the original.

 

[StinkeyPete]

And the new one shot satisfactory? I guess it's luck of the draw with regulation....i'll be honest, it seems like black magic to me. More guns should just use adjustable systems to avoid all the warranty work.

Making a shotgun with two barrels and not-bad wood with an msrp of $709 is the magic.

Most fellas will just take it out and shoot it without patterning.
I admit I need to practice more, but standing on uneven ground with unsteady footing shooting a birds that surprise me from no end of crazy directions, I am still excited and making bad shot and missing randomly and often...even with perfect regulation.

The magic is.. the company is taking care of the customer.

 

[RandyWakeman]

For under-and-over shotguns, the maximum difference between 2 shot patterns' centres of gravity should not exceed 10 cm with a convergence set at 35m. -- (Browning)

That's 3.93701 inches MAX at 35 meters. Brownings are far better regulated than Beretta and most others. The tightest standards that I know of are Caesar Guerini / Fabarm.

 

[jordman]

For under-and-over shotguns, the maximum difference between 2 shot patterns' centres of gravity should not exceed 10 cm with a convergence set at 35m. -- (Browning)

That's 3.93701 inches MAX at 35 meters. Brownings are far better regulated than Beretta and most others. The tightest standards that I know of are Caesar Guerini / Fabarm.

I'd be thrilled if I end up with that result.....4" at 35meters, plenty good for a field gun. But I hope we all agree we can't have confidence in a gun if it's a foot or more off at 35m Even if you have a little pattern overlap, there is an element of confidence that is required to shoot properly. I guess my unprofessional personal standard is 6" at 40yards...but would hope for better.

 

[jordman]

The new one shoots 1 to 2 inches left at 20 yards. That's a somewhat rough estimate from eyeballing the patterns on paper, and it's close enough. I shoot skeet with this gun, and if the pattern is off a couple of inches, that's the least of my problems. And FWIW, the new gun has much nicer wood than the original.

Agree with your conclusion but to clarify, are you saying the barrels diverge 1-2" at 20yards or they both shoot that way? If they both shoot that way, that is a better issue to have (correctable).

 

[RandyWakeman]

I'd be thrilled if I end up with that result.....4" at 35meters, plenty good for a field gun. But I hope we all agree we can't have confidence in a gun if it's a foot or more off at 35m Even if you have a little pattern overlap, there is an element of confidence that is required to shoot properly. I guess my unprofessional personal standard is 6" at 40yards...but would hope for better.

Huglo guns are not high quality guns: I've been through many, and at best they are adequate. This is common knowledge, for it isn't difficult to spend over $2K for an autoloader, expecting much in 2022 in a double-gun for $650 - $700 is not realistic. Khan, Huglo, etc. are low-end guns even by Turkish industry standards. There is a market for cheap guns, of course. In fact, a friend recently bought one-- left hand.

Though the guns themselves are hit or miss, CZ-USA is a good importer with good customer service.

 

[jordman]

Huglo guns are not high quality guns: I've been through many, and at best they are adequate. This is common knowledge, for it isn't difficult to spend over $2K for an autoloader, expecting much in 2022 in a double-gun for $650 - $700 is not realistic. Khan, Huglo, etc. are low-end guns even by Turkish industry standards. There is a market for cheap guns, of course. In fact, a friend recently bought one-- left hand.

Though the guns themselves are hit or miss, CZ-USA is a good importer with good customer service.

Oh I was aware of that when I bought it. I like to think of it as inconsistent quality. Meaning the quality control sucks but hopefully CZ can fix the issues. In the end it costs more grief on the consumer but I guess that is why you pay less. If you want to just buy a gun and go shoot and not have to worry about it, get a browning (which is exactly what I did for my primary target gun).

 

[noweil]

One gunsmith I shoot and hunt with has plenty to say about inexpensive o/u's. One of his frequent comments is about poor barrel regulation.

 

[jordman]

To be fair, I had no intention of starting a debate on the merits of inexpensive O/Us. I really was just wondering what they would likely do with my gun (and secondarily if anyone had similar experiences). I believe I have my answer and I will be happy to report back on how it all turns out. I want to BELIEVE that a good deal can be had with a little effort on my part (doing my own quality control!). I don't mind tinkering with this stuff, it's a hobby. I enjoy hunting now and again but I also just love tinkering with this stuff.....for some, that might be absolutely painful I suppose.

 

[Triggw]

Agree with your conclusion but to clarify, are you saying the barrels diverge 1-2" at 20yards or they both shoot that way? If they both shoot that way, that is a better issue to have (correctable).

That was distance from the POA. The 2 barrels were pretty similar. I guess I could install an adjustable comb and adjust it to the right, but, as I say, I've got plenty of other improvements to make in my shooting before that's a factor.

 

[StinkeyPete]

To be fair, I had no intention of starting a debate on the merits of inexpensive O/Us. I really was just wondering what they would likely do with my gun (and secondarily if anyone had similar experiences). I believe I have my answer and I will be happy to report back on how it all turns out. I want to BELIEVE that a good deal can be had with a little effort on my part (doing my own quality control!). I don't mind tinkering with this stuff, it's a hobby. I enjoy hunting now and again but I also just love tinkering with this stuff.....for some, that might be absolutely painful I suppose.

I agree. I was able to pick up a 20 ga. Bobwhite G2 for $500. I took it apart, learned how the simple trigger mechanisms worked and lubricated everything and my trigger pulls improved a bit. They are not as nice as my "good" guns but I have come to like the fun little thing. I have yet to bag a bird with it, but it has been on some nice hikes with me. Eventually, I may gently work on the springs. Once I have replacement springs in hand!

 

[DannyBoyCustomLeather]

I agree. I was able to pick up a 20 ga. Bobwhite G2 for $500. I took it apart, learned how the simple trigger mechanisms worked and lubricated everything and my trigger pulls improved a bit. They are not as nice as my "good" guns but I have come to like the fun little thing. I have yet to bag a bird with it, but it has been on some nice hikes with me. Eventually, I may gently work on the springs. Once I have replacement springs in hand!

I have a few Huglus and they have proven satisfactory. I use them as field guns not heavy use trap or skeet. I would imagine they would not last more then a few thousand rounds perhaps, before something went wrong?