dryfiring citori--browning's view

4158 Views 21 Replies 16 Participants Last post by Chocolab, Nov 27, 2008

rapaz

Discussion Starter · Sep 26, 2003

(I'm newly registered, but have been lurking for a little while.)

I recently bought a used Browning Citori 525. Nice gun. Anyway, I was wondering about whether or not dry firing (such as after cleaning, before putting it back in the safe) was ok or not, so I called up Browning and asked them.

They say that dry firing is fine--not ideal, and not something to do to excess, but not a huge no-no. If you are going to be doing it often, they recommend snapcaps. I'm not so sure I want to be storing it with snap caps; in my paranoid mind I have visions of somehow them causing rust or something equally unlikely.

Does this view of dry firing ring true to you? What about storing it with a snap cap in a cylinder?

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

G

· #2 · Sep 26, 2003

How are the Aluminum or plastic or brass snap caps going to cause rust do you think? If all else lightly lube the surface, use a rust preventer, or a dehumidifier in the gun safe.

From what I recall the issue with dry firing comes from the leaf springs that were used in the older model guns. Basically a flat piece of spring steel that would take a set or break over time, I have a Charles Daley SxS that I have changed the leaf springs in many times. With the modern coiled springs I think the chances of breakage are slim and fall inline with Brownings response.

JMCCOYB

· #3 · Sep 26, 2003

Don't dream up boogy bears where there are none--life is tough enough. :shock: Based on WHAT YOU DESCRIBE, I would pull the trigger and put it away.

If it REALLY bothers you, put in the plastic snap caps, how can plastic rust?

Enjoy it.

Bill

· #4 · Sep 26, 2003

I think the conventional wisdom is that plastic snap-caps have the potential to form condensation in the barrel. This is not so with metal snappers......which is all I use. Additionally, I found that the tolerances on the plastic variety were poor and very often the lip is oversized and will not allow proper closure of the gun (I'm talking O/U, here). You will then be slamming the gun shut....not good....and in a short time, the lip breaks away from the body and the damn thing is stuck in the chamber. Metal is definitely the way to go. Of course the idea of these things, whether your gun has leaf or coil springs, is to release the tension which could weaken the spring over extended periods of storing. I'm on board theoritically, not sure from a practical standpoint. My Dad never used snap caps. He had a Belgium Browning Superposed 12 gauge that dated from the early 30's (of course production began in 1931) and over 40 years of use, abuse and non-snap-cap storage that gun never failed.

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JMCCOYB

· #5 · Sep 26, 2003

Bill, an interesting post. I've used snap caps for 15 or so years and have never had a problem (maybe with that kind of luck I should play the lottery?).

Can you elaborate on your comment, as I have never heard it:

"I think the conventional wisdom is that plastic snap-caps have the potential to form condensation in the barrel."

Since I was only an average science student (and that was years ago, of course) I'm not sure why plastic would assist in the formation of condensation where other materials would not. Have there been published articles on this to your knowledge? Other sources of information?

Thanks for your help.

Bill

· #6 · Sep 26, 2003

JMCCOYB - try the Technoid at the Shotgun Report. I believe thats where I picked it up. I assume the potential comes from the differing thermal characteristics of the two materials (plastic of the snappers and the steel of the chambers) providing for a temperature gradient that can yield condensation.....much like the situation of a cool basement wall that is contacted by warmer summer air. But if you keep your chambers well oil (as I'm sure you do), what's the big deal? I don't know, I just regurgitate what I read. So, in 15 years you have never had a plastic snap-cap crap out on you?? That is lucky!! I was particularly unlucky with them in my Winchester 101's, which forced me to use only metal caps.

SamL

· #7 · Sep 26, 2003

As long as we're on the subject of snap caps...

What do you think of those that have a cotton/wool swab that goes into the chamber, while still providing the snap cap end? I can't decide if it looks like a good idea (keep a little oil/protectant on the swab to inhibit rust) or a bad one (trapping/creating moisture as described above for the plastic ones).

This is what I'm talking about.

-- Sam

JMCCOYB

· #8 · Sep 27, 2003

Bill, you will notice I said nothing about snap caps 'craping out'--yep, I do seen to recall a few (?) chiping, but I was more worried about your comment (convential wisdom) about them aiding and promoting condensation.

At a couple of bucks each, I've never worried about them breaking, more worried about potential damage to the gun. I considered it no big deal (the caps).

But your comment worries me (I do keep my guns clean, lightly oiled and stored in a dry place--SoCal is a desert, you know) and I will follow up. Just could never imagin how plastic could promote condensation--but I guess I will learn. Thats what this place is for!

Thanks for the tip.

G

· #9 · Sep 27, 2003

Just keep a piece of hard wood handy. Take the gun apart and hold the piece of wood up against the face of the receiver and pull the triggers, put it back together if you store it that way. Can do the same with snap caps. Pull the triggers, take the forend off, remove the snap caps and put the gun back together again.

Petiey

· #10 · Nov 26, 2008

There's no need to relax the springs on the shotgun. The discussion is a waste of time. If that spring is ruined by staying cocked, it'll never last through the firing. Some of mine have stayed cocked for more than 20 years. Save you concerns for the future of guns and hunting in America.

wb

· #11 · Nov 26, 2008

Petiey said:
There's no need to relax the springs on the shotgun. The discussion is a waste of time. If that spring is ruined by staying cocked, it'll never last through the firing. Some of mine have stayed cocked for more than 20 years. Save you concerns for the future of guns and hunting in America.

holy cow a five year old post! Missed that one! :roll:

Grousen

· #12 · Nov 26, 2008

rapaz,

I recommend you use metal snap caps. Put them in, point the gun in a safe direction, and then dry fire both barrels on their snap caps. Then take the forearm off. The barrels then come off without recocking the firing pins, so then take the snap caps out, and put the barrels and forearm back on. You can now store the gun in the uncocked position.

Better safe than sorry. Why store a Citori cocked when it is so easy to store it uncocked?

MGF

· #13 · Nov 26, 2008

I use snaps in my O/Us not because I'm worried about relieving spring pressure, but because I like to pull a gun out and do a little dry fire move/mount/shoot whenever I get the urge.

I don't care for plastic because of the condensation possibility already mentioned, although my bores are lightly oiled (actually, I use G-96). I'm also not a big fan of the A-zoom or Traditions snaps ... I find the false primer tends to crater out pretty rapidly. I like a snap that's not going to have the false primer dish out or crater from dry firing after a few months.

I've got one pair of plain, unpolished aluminum with a little o-ring for a snug fit that show hardly any wear on the synthetic primer after years. There's no brand name on 'em. If I could find 'em again, I'd buy some more. That pair lives in my first really good upland bird gun, an older model Beretta S686 Ultrallight with the matte black finish. Otherwise, I like the woolie ones from Pro-Shot. A G-96 wipe of the metallic ones, or a little spritz of G-96 on the woolies ... I've never had a problem of any kind.

I leave 'em at home on hunts. Dealing with partners, dogs, leashes, water bottles, gloves, uncasing and recasing between fields, etc. ... I find it too easy to loose 'em, and good snaps ain't cheap. Plus, I prefer that me or anyone can see that my guns are empty the moment I crack 'em open. When we're back home and the guns are all cleaned up, I do store 'em with snaps in. A must? No. But my guns are worth more than my truck, so what the hell?

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marist89

· #14 · Nov 26, 2008

Petiey said:
There's no need to relax the springs on the shotgun. The discussion is a waste of time.

Yes, it is a waste of time. So after 5 years, why did you bring it up again?
:?: :?: :?:

Virginian

· #15 · Nov 26, 2008

I don't believe in dry firing. I have always used snap caps. And in 50 years of using plastic, aluminum, and chrome plated steel snap caps in SxSs, semi-autos, pumps, and even one O/U, I have never had any condensation, rust, or whatever. This time frame covers from propped in the corner of the pantry, to under the sofa in a case, to a gun safe. My ejector guns have snapped the rims off of several plastic snap caps, so from now on all I use are the A-Zoom, or some of the chrome plated beauties I got from Dunn's many moons ago when I had some money.

Kraiza

· #16 · Nov 26, 2008

I don't use snap caps. I have some guns that are over 50 years old and no problem with then.

I did try a set of snap caps and lost one and never replace it. Just don't need them.

Frank Lopez

· #17 · Nov 26, 2008

SamL said:
As long as we're on the subject of snap caps...

What do you think of those that have a cotton/wool swab that goes into the chamber, while still providing the snap cap end? I can't decide if it looks like a good idea (keep a little oil/protectant on the swab to inhibit rust) or a bad one (trapping/creating moisture as described above for the plastic ones).

This is what I'm talking about.

-- Sam

Oddly enough, these are probably the worst ones that you can use. Wool is hygroscopic (it attracts and holds moisture) and will act that way even when oiled.

I use snap caps on all my guns and always relieve the spring tension. It is not really necessary, but it just makes me feel better. All of my snap caps are metal, either aluminum or brass, though I much prefer the brass. I have never found the plastic ones to attract moisture or cause rusting, but I have had a problem with them breaking around the rim, especially in ejector guns.

The best ones are made of brass and have a "primer" that is softer than steel but durable enough not to be deformed by the firing pin.

Frank

TexasTon

· #18 · Nov 26, 2008

Petiey said:
The discussion is a waste of time.

And you had to drag up a post from 2003 so we would know it's a waste of time?? :roll: :roll: Who's wasting this time??? :roll:

So you guys think that a spring left in a compressed state, doesn't fatigue and lose compression strength/force? :roll:

MGF

· #19 · Nov 26, 2008

I usually agree with Frank and marvel at his sensible, experience-based knowledge, but I've used the mop style caps spritzed with some G-96 in two of my O/Us for years. No signs of rust at all. Of course, my guns are generally very well cleaned and maintained, so maybe that explains it. I don't like to put 'em up until the bores look like shiny as glass.

Pumpster

· #20 · Nov 26, 2008

Petiey said:
There's no need to relax the springs on the shotgun. The discussion is a waste of time. If that spring is ruined by staying cocked, it'll never last through the firing. Some of mine have stayed cocked for more than 20 years. Save you concerns for the future of guns and hunting in America.

Absolutely right - the elastic limit of the spring is not nearly approached and staying cocked does nothing.

Having said that, I still use snap caps.

Yes, metal and plastic have different specific heats and conductivities but that won't be a cause of condensation in your chamber.

I recently spent a very pleasant rainy day in my basement shop machining a pair of 20 ga. aluminum snaps with replaceable brass "primers"

I paid myself about a buck an hour :lol: :lol:

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