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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi I haven't loaded shot shells for 40 years, I recently purchased several cases of Estate target loads to try trap shooting and thought I might save and reload them (1oz loads). Does anyone know what wads I could use? thanks Bob
 

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If you haven't loaded in four decades I suggest getting a copy of Lyman's Shotshell Reloading Handbook. Think it is the fifth edition now.

It has tons of load recipes for federal hulls, and the same book will probably tell you that estate hulls are Federal hulls with steel brass and a paper basewad.

Don't let your paper basewads get wet, wet paper basewads run the risk of coming loose and possibly becoming a barrel obstruction.

Best of success!
 

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If yours are the new version Estate hulls, they have a flat plastic base wad instead of the rolled paper base wad. You can use Cheddite date for the new style hulls, and they require a Euro-size primer unlike the older style hull.
 

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pahoghunter said:
Hi I haven't loaded shot shells for 40 years, I recently purchased several cases of Estate target loads to try trap shooting and thought I might save and reload them (1oz loads). Does anyone know what wads I could use? thanks Bob
There are 2 types of wads: those made for straight walled hulls and those made for tapered walled hulls. The only people who make tapered walled hulls are Rem and Win. Everything else is straight walled. Tapered walled wads will work in straight walled hulls but just not as well as the wads made for straight walled hulls. Federal wads are available and there are clones made by Downrange and Claybuster. Also, wads made for European hulls will work as well and Ballistics Products has a large selection of them. I hope this helps answer your question.
 

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mwr01 said:
If yours are the new version Estate hulls, they have a flat plastic base wad instead of the rolled paper base wad. You can use Cheddite date for the new style hulls, and they require a Euro-size primer unlike the older style hull.
Well! If I learn one thing each day I shouldn't be too stupid. :p

Do you know if the 28ga estate hulls are still the same? Are they still brass? I haven't bought estates for a while.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I looked inside and it appears to be thick cardboard cup?
The primer size is something else, I knocked the primer out it measures .243. I have some old Win. 209 primers and CCI 209 primers. The Win. measure .229 and fall into the primer pocket, the CCI measure .242 and would have to be pressed in, interesting.
 

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pahoghunter said:
Hi I haven't loaded shot shells for 40 years, I recently purchased several cases of Estate target loads to try trap shooting and thought I might save and reload them (1oz loads). Does anyone know what wads I could use? thanks Bob
Data for the 'old" "Federal High Power with paper basewad" hull, and several other names.

And yep, it looks like you'll need to use the "European-size" primers.
 

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oldthompson said:
mwr01 said:
If yours are the new version Estate hulls, they have a flat plastic base wad instead of the rolled paper base wad. You can use Cheddite data for the new style hulls, and they require a Euro-size primer unlike the older style hull.
Well! If I learn one thing each day I shouldn't be too stupid. :p

Do you know if the 28ga estate hulls are still the same? Are they still brass? I haven't bought estates for a while.
I don't think any of the current Estate hulls have brass heads, but I have no first-hand experience with Estates in either 28 or .410. At least some of the new version 12's and 20's have a brass washed steel head. The old style (with paper base wad) were nickel-plated steel.
 

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pahoghunter said:
I looked inside and it appears to be thick cardboard cup?
The primer size is something else, I knocked the primer out it measures .243. I have some old Win. 209 primers and CCI 209 primers. The Win. measure .229 and fall into the primer pocket, the CCI measure .242 and would have to be pressed in, interesting.
There is something wrong with those Winchester primers, are you certain they are 209 size?

Your hull is the same one as the Federal Top Gun with wound paper basewad. They use the standard American sized 209 primers and reload very well. Data is easy to find.

I use a lot of the Claybuster CB-6100 in these for 1oz loads. I also like the PT-12xx wads but availability was spotty until recently. The CB-6100 loads very well in theses hulls and no matter what anyone else tell you, the hulls are good for multiple reloads if you choose to do that.
 

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If those estates you have already got euro-sized primers shoved into them, they will never fit a 209 again.
 

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If you check around on the price of components and a reloader, you might be better off just buying shotshells for 12 or 20 Ga. Go to trapshooters.com they have a reloading cost guide and then you can compare the cost of reloading vs buying. I am reloading because I years ago stocked up on lead shot I picked at reasonable prices. I started out with almost 800Lbs. When I finish my last 300 Lbs I will probably retire my loaders. I don't shoot high volume and it will probably last me a while 4-5 years) at my current rate. Some people like reloading and do it because they can tune in theoir loads. If you are into 410 or 28 ga it is definitely cost effective
 

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Now the newest Estate 28 gauge hulls are Cheddite. Brass plated steel cap, and the Cheddite OEM primer with the brass plated steel battery cup and nickel plated primer cup. Cutting one down shows that they are likely only sourcing the primed shell, because the load uses double base powder and the Fed 28s1 wad. Interestingly, the packaging does not say "Assembled in the US with foreign and domestic components" like their other new stuff. Federal is doing a lot of business these days with Cheddite/Nobel Sport France.

PM me if you would like to see a photo.
 

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mwr01 said:
If yours are the new version Estate hulls, they have a flat plastic base wad instead of the rolled paper base wad. You can use Cheddite date for the new style hulls, and they require a Euro-size primer unlike the older style hull.
The "new style" Estates are commonly called "white box" Estates (because of the mostly white box).

While they do appear to have larger primer pockets, they are not as big as the primer pockets in the Rio hulls.

A Winchester W209 primer does have some interference fit, albeit not much, and you can seat them with your index finger. I wouldn't feel comfortable using a W209 primer in these new "white box" Estates.

A Cheddite CX2000 however, has more interference fit, and requires thump pressure to seat. I wouldn't have any reservations using a Cheddite primer in one of these hulls. Course, a Noble Sport, Fiocchi, or a Rio primer would be the ultimate (and require machine pressure to seat), and might be better, but I think a Cheddite would be fine. After all, it is rumored that these hulls themselves are Cheddite (since they come from France).

 

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Republican said:
A Cheddite CX2000 however, has more interference fit, and requires thump pressure to seat. I wouldn't have any reservations using a Cheddite primer in one of these hulls. Course, a Noble Sport, Fiocchi, or a Rio primer would be the ultimate (and require machine pressure to seat), and might be better, but I think a Cheddite would be fine. After all, it is rumored that these hulls themselves are Cheddite (since they come from France).
I've loaded thousands of these with Cheddite primers, for both an O/U and semi, no problems ever in either of them. :D :D
 

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When it comes to primers "euro" name does not equal "euro" size. I know the Fiocchis are "euro" size. I believe Cheddite are about the same as US size. I also believe noblesport is "euro" size.

Something does not sound right with 0.229 WW primers. Back about 40 years ago there were 2 completely different primer sizes. One of those sizes (the smaller one) became obsolete. What we call 209 size has been around forever, but it has always been right AROUND 0.243. When a lot of Euro manufactured primers hit the US market it was discovered that some of them really were the same size as US. And some are real, real close but maybe a thousandth or two larger. They are so close that you can use euro primers in US hulls but it will take a bit more force the first time. But, they are just enough bigger that US primers will be pretty sloppy after using the Euros.

And what makes it all more confusing: Federal loads some ammo that uses US "Top Gun" type hulls and some with Cheddite euro hulls. The euros have plastic base wads and Top Guns use wound paper base wads.
 
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