[Frank12us]

Frank: your options seem so easy, but what if Option 2 isn't working for a 60 year old man who has enjoyed shooting much of his adult life and suddenly can't hit a target because he has shifted dominance? Try harder? Give up and play golf?

Given that I am 52, have been dealing with the issue since I was in my 20's, and my dominance changes depending on how tired my eyes are...
Trying harder doesn't work and just increases stress. Would advise the person in your example to relax and have their Rx checked - then go back to shooting low-gun straightaways with both eyes open, working back up through the various sight pictures. For me, low gun is the key as it allows me to fix the target's presentation and prevents occlusion until the last moment.

1. Dominance (Neurological). Which eye has better visual acuity? The eye with the clearest image will be dominant.
2. Tracking (Physiological). Muscular control of eyeball (Right Eye). Tracking errors can result in loss of clarity/dominance shift (eg. a twitch in dominant eye).
3. Location Prediction (Learned Skill). Predicting location is a skill - different from dominance/tracking. Strobing LCD lenses are one training tool that can help your brain with predictive tracking: Strobe Sport Training Glasses - Improves Reaction Time,Focus

 

[MitchL59]

Frank: your options seem so easy, but what if Option 2 isn't working for a 60 year old man who has enjoyed shooting much of his adult life and suddenly can't hit a target because he has shifted dominance? Try harder? Give up and play golf?
An interesting poll
Poll: Corrective measures that have resolved my...

I believe those interested in the complicated issues of visual processing are genuinely trying to help.
Phil Kiner, Peter Blakeley and Ed Solomons would be examples
Worried about closing an eye? Don’t be 😉 | Shotgun Forum (shotgunworld.com)

Great video Drew thanks for posting. When I was doing my Level 1 NSCA course as a class we all did the basic dominate eye testing with each other and as it turns out I was center ocular. It explained why longer crossers with both open seemed almost impossible to hit till I started shielding or closing the left eye. I may do as Solomons said and go home and gouge out my left eye with a melon baller.

 

[Notch15]

Given that I am 52, have been dealing with the issue since I was in my 20's, and my dominance changes depending on how tired my eyes are...
Trying harder doesn't work and just increases stress. Would advise the person in your example to relax and have their Rx checked - then go back to shooting low-gun straightaways with both eyes open, working back up through the various sight pictures. For me, low gun is the key as it allows me to fix the target's presentation and prevents occlusion until the last moment.

1. Dominance. Which eye has better visual acuity? The eye with the clearest image will be dominant.
2. Tracking. Muscular control of eyeball (Right Eye).
3. Location Prediction. Neurological based on input data. Predicting location is different from dominance/tracking. Strobing LCD lenses are one training tool that can help your brain with predictive tracking: Strobe Sport Training Glasses - Improves Reaction Time,Focus

Or just occlude one eye. When I did this i started shooting better within a few practice sessions.

 

[xsshooter]

There is a provider within 3 miles of my house, I'll give them a call and get the low down. If not prohibitive expensive, I'll give it a shot.

 

[Notch15]

There is a provider within 3 miles of my house, I'll give them a call and get the low down. If not prohibitive expensive, I'll give it a shot.

Please keep us posted on what you learn.

 

[xsshooter]

Will do!

 

[Drew Hause]

Frank: absent marked disparity in acuity "The eye with the clearest image will be dominant" is incorrect.

I've discussed this issue with an optometrist who teaches neuro-ophthalmology down the street at Midwestern U. and when asked why we dominance shift his learned answer was "We just do, and you won't understand why."

 

[Frank12us]

Got my answer from a former head of the American Academy of Ophthalmology, but acknowledge science is not fixed. Something to consider is the extent our tests for dominance and the answer you got are based on a static image vs. moving target. Eg. Right eye is better at reading an eye chart but has poor tracking... Standard dominance test will show right eye; but actual result is left eye has a much clearer image of moving subjects/may exert dominance when shooting.

 

[Jim Tyner]

There is a provider within 3 miles of my house, I'll give them a call and get the low down. If not prohibitive expensive, I'll give it a shot.

RightEye providers generally fall into 4 disciplines. Concussion Therapy, plain Vision Therapy, Sports Vision and Reading Therapy. There is some crossover like a lot of pro and collegiate teams that have concussion risks have a RightEye assessment done at the beginning of the season. If they suffer a concussion, its location and the extent of its severity will show on a re-assessment. Then, as therapy progresses, re-assessments will show when the player returns to normal.

Reading is really interesting. If a child's eyes can't smoothly tract the words in the line, speed and comprehension suffer. This not mly affects reading but, by extension, total academic performance. I have attached just the graph portion of a 4 page standard reading assessment(the other 3 pages are detailed data analysis) so you can see the tracking movements.

 

[Drew Hause]

Frank: it has also been established that dominance testing and visual processing assessments in the office may not correlate well with moving targets in the field or baseballs in the outfield.

 

[Frank12us]

So given the difficulties in testing, diagnosis, and cure the KISS methodology has ended up generating similar results (to date). Most difficult part is not getting angry/frustrated about going back to basics when changes to your body mandate an adjustment.

Not knocking RightEye or Strobing glasses - Interested to see how it plays out with respect to correcting dominance issues.

 

[Jim Tyner]

Interested to see how it plays out with respect to correcting dominance issues.

Eye tracking analysis and any exercises or prescription changes that may be indicated would have no effect on dominance. What the RightEye System reveals is that there is a lot more to what we call crossfiring than just eye dominance. It shows that even our dominant eye can sometimes provide inaccurate information if there are eye tracking deficiencies which can result in a missed target.

Ever miss a target that you could have sworn you were right on?

 

[MitchL59]

Eye tracking analysis and any exercises or prescription changes that may be indicated would have no effect on dominance. What the RightEye System reveals is that there is a lot more to what we call crossfiring than just eye dominance. It shows that even our dominant eye can sometimes provide inaccurate information if there are eye tracking deficiencies which can result in a missed target.

Ever miss a target that you could have sworn you were right on?

Yep, I call them RUM's............. Random unexplained misses, happened twice to me yesterday and PO's me to no end.

 

[Frank12us]

Ever miss a target that you could have sworn you were right on?

Sure. That said, was it due to a tracking error, dominance issue, flinch, stopping my swing, lifting my head, jerking the trigger, hold point, mismount, or 1000 other potential issues? Would rather get back to basics and focus on the next bird vs. agonizing over the last one.

 

[xsshooter]

Have an appointment with sports vision therapy specialist . Initial visit is to determine if I have any eye issues, and if they think they can help me. Determining ahead of time that the visit will be covered by insurance.

After that it is private pay, and will go over cost, depending on what is recommended.

I'll update after visit, but that is a month out.

 

[Coach Super-X]

As for your huskster comment, The RightEye System is used by several of the most prestigious vision research institutions such as the Cleveland Clinic, Duke University and MIT. It is being used for brain injury therapy and monitoring, early Parkinson diagnosis and even long term affects to the brain like caused by Lyme disease. It utilizes the worldwide patented eye tracking technology developed by Tobii in Sweden(Google them) by taking that data feed and applying proprietary algorithms to generate the reports which constructed by comparing an individuals results to a database of of similar demographic subjects drawn from its master database of over 5,000,000 previous assessments.

Okay, but what does this have to do with recreational shotgunning (which is the only kind of shotgunning that exists in the U.S.)? I have had kids who I suspected had some sort of focusing ("tracking" perhaps?) problem. It was obvious they were never going to win a medal in a World Cup or at the Olympics, but they were still having fun shooting.

Another way to put it is, I have had kids who demonstrated exceptional "tracking" abilities (proven in field). They were the ones who went on to become top shooters in their discipline. But I did not need some machine to tell me the difference between the two.

I just do not see where you think you are going with this. So some shooters have better tracking ability. So what? Do you think you have a "training program" that is going to turn them into a top shooter? Where can we read about at least one such person you have converted from a mediocre or poor shooter into a top shooter? My approach may be archaic but I have taught several kids to shoot who went on to become top shooters in the country. These were not kids I cherry-picked out of existing programs, they were kids who came to me as rank beginners.

And what on earth does your "tracking" gizmo have to do with eye dominance? I can tell you which is the dominant eye on a beginner in about 10 seconds. It does not matter because I then teach them how to shoot on their strong side with both eyes open, irrespective of dominance.

And for the record, you cannot be a "huckster" unless you are selling something. I don't qualify, you do. My "book" as you call it is published in full on the Internet, free for all to read.

I am in this sport purely for the fun of it, although I will admit it is fun taking kids to the Junior Olympics and watching them get a gold medal hung around their neck, or becoming the state champ in multiple disciplines. I will put my percentage of successes up against any coach in the country with the exception of Dan Carlisle.

When you think your coaching or your gizmo has led to even one beginner becoming a top shooter in the country, by all means let us know.

 

[Coach Super-X]

Sure. That said, was it due to a tracking error, dominance issue, flinch, stopping my swing, lifting my head, jerking the trigger, hold point, mismount, or 1000 other potential issues? Would rather get back to basics and focus on the next bird vs. agonizing over the last one.

Not only that, but any time someone says they missed a bird they "could have sworn they were right on," I know their actual problem was merely what they are doing with their eyes, not some physiological defect.

 

[Jim Tyner]

LOL. What's the matter Coach, you afraid science might prove your theories wrong? In the past you have amply demonstrated your unworthiness to participate in any type of discussion that challenges your opinions. I am done with your baloney. Say "Hi" for me to your buddies at the Flat Earth Society.

 

[Drew Hause]

The extremely short version of dominance and dominance shifting is that the dominant eye is not necessarily the eye with the best visual acuity, but the one with the "best" visual processing, and that is where Jim's analysis is helpful.

And this is very likely the issue with women who are much more likely to need some form of off-eye occlusive but who on formal testing are actually not much more cross-dominant than men.

Visual evoked potentials have shown that dominance is related to the difference in latency (speed of the impulse to the visual cortex) and amplitude (amount of impulse).
http://iosrjournals.org/iosr-jdms/papers/Vol2-issue4/D0241924.pdf

The problem is that "dominance" doesn't really capture all that is going on with binocular vision: there are LOTS of visual processing issues - binocular rivalry, rivalry dominance, stereopsis, motion perception threshold, and lots more that I don't understand
Finding the "Master Eye"
And IMHO it would be helpful to "focus" (pun intended) on the larger issue of visual processing rather than simply dominance, dominance shifting, and "cross-firing" - which are all processing issues.

 

[dogchaser37]

If I didn't know better, I would swear that folks are looking for an excuse rather than working hard.

Look at the very top shooters, they all miss targets, sometimes they even shoot in the 80's. Does this mean they have some sort of visual problem? I doubt it.

Let's say you do have some sort of muscular control issue with your eyes, what is the cure?

I'll say it again, most of this is nonsense.

I am also a walking example of visual acuity. I was told 8 years ago that I had a cataract starting in my right eye, it never affected my ability to shoot but it did affect my visual acuity in that eye (eventually in both). I could no longer see the rings on the target at 20 yards....with correction.