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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a large supply of old 12 Ga. Federal paper hulls dating back to the 60's and I would appreciate loading data using Red Dot and card and fiber wads. Failing that, loads with Red Dot using 1-piece plastic wads would be suitable.
Also, I have about 100 old WAA 12 Ga. hulls and would appreciate loading data for Red Dot powder.
 

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Go to the Alliant website. Everything you need is there.
 

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Those are probably the old Federal Champion or Monarch hulls, much better in quality than the current Gold Medal paper hulls. They were pretty much what everyone used back in those days. Even though they technically are straight walled hulls, but because the paper is so thick, they behave like a tapered walled hull in terms of wad selection. Thus, you can freely use any of the AA style or Fig. 8 style wads in them.

The Alliant data is for the current Gold Medal hulls but I see no reason not to use it in your Champions/Monarchs. Keep in mind the Alliant data is likely to filled with recipes using only Federal primers. The Federals are the "hottest" primers on the market so you will be OK using another brand, such as Winchester, without any problems with that Red Dot. You should be OK with 18 grains of Red Dot and something like either the Green Duster for 1 oz. or the Blue Duster with 9/8 oz and just about any primer.

You would have to find an old reloading manual to get data using card and fiber wads.
 

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You can get the CB3118-12AR wad it is the replacement wad for the Federal paper shells that used to use the now discontinued 12C1 wad.You can also us the claybuster 12S0 wad or the 12S3 wad,these all work as they should in the straight walled Fed paper shells.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thank you one and all. {hs#
It appears that Red Dot powder is going to be hard to find and because I live 1 1/2 hours from a small city and 3 hours from a large city, I'll let my fingers do the walking.
Even though I have two 12 Ga. reloading presses I haven't reloaded the gauge in over 30 years and I'm not familiar with modern (new) powders other than Red Dot, Green Dot and Unique.
I want to reload 7/8, 1 and 1 1/8 ounce loads for a young budding hunter and Alliant lists Clay Dot, e3, and Extra Lite recipes for the above loads.
Anyone have experience with these powders?
 

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wyobirds said:
Thank you one and all. {hs#
It appears that Red Dot powder is going to be hard to find and because I live 1 1/2 hours from a small city and 3 hours from a large city, I'll let my fingers do the walking.
Even though I have two 12 Ga. reloading presses I haven't reloaded the gauge in over 30 years and I'm not familiar with modern (new) powders other than Red Dot, Green Dot and Unique.
I want to reload 7/8, 1 and 1 1/8 ounce loads for a young budding hunter and Alliant lists Clay Dot, e3, and Extra Lite recipes for the above loads.
Anyone have experience with these powders?
Clay Dot is a great powder for the listed loads.
Extra-Lite is fantastic for 3/4 and 7/8 oz loadings in the 12 Gauge.
I have a friend that prefers E3 over everything else. He is loading mostly 1 oz loads.
Aliant has loadings for all those powders at their data site.
Alliant Reloaders Guide
 

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It sounds like you don't have any powders this point so that opens up the field. Good luck finding any of the powders you list.

Hodgdon powders, such as Titewad and 700X, may be available and if they are give them consideration. And Hodgdon Clays and International may be available as well.

Clays is Hodgdon's answer to Red Dot and International is their answer to Green Dot. Universal is their competitor to Unique. The Hodgdon website has excellent reloading data. Look at Winchester powders as well, marketed by Hodgdon and included in their data.

There has been a tremendous powder shortage and we are on the backside of it right now and people are going with whatever they can get their hands on.

When you find powder, and it is available online, you will encounter HazMat shipping surcharges, which are a real bummer. Combine your order with an order for primers and try to stuff as much as you can under a single surcharge.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks again guys. {hs#
Nebs, For the last 10 years I have been shooting a #2 AyA 16 Ga. loaded with all brass hulls and have enough powder to last me for a few years. Unfortunately, the powders that I need for the budding shooter to be are not in my inventory. :(


 

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Glad to be of help!
 

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It's recommended a smooth start crimp be used with paper shells and Mec has them in 12ga. I have them installed in all my 12ga presses because they work just fine with 6 and 8 point crimps. Your brass shells look really nice. Are you gluing the OS wad in ? What's your load data for them ? And you probably all ready know any load with plastic wads will work with fiber wads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Bladesmith wrote, "Your brass shells look really nice. Are you gluing the OS wad in ? What's your load data for them ? And you probably all ready know any load with plastic wads will work with fiber wads."

I insert oversized OSC's and glue them in with Fletch Tite glue.

The following recipes are for 16 GA

7/8oz shot, 16.6 grains Green dot, Win primer, Card wad with fiber filler.
7/8oz shot, 16.5 grains Unique, Win primer, Card wad with Fiber filler.
Both loads are rated at 1190fps, 2 1/2drams. Equiv.

I have not shot or patterned the 7/8 0z. green Dot load.

*3/4 or 7/8 oz shot, 18.3 grains Unique, Win primer, card wad, fiber filler.
1230fps, rated at 2 3/4 Dram. Equiv.
Load them all at about 40 lbs. pressure on the wads.

*This load patterned outstanding in my AyA and my friends Parker and is perfect for Blue and Ruff grouse. I also use the load for dove, Huns and Quail

I have shot, patterned and chronographed the loads listed below.

Shot wt. Vel. Powder Gr. Wads PSI
1 1178 SR4756 28 card & fiber 5780
1 1238 SR4756 30 " 6440
1 1328 SR4756 32 " 7440
1 1/8 1325 SR4756 32 " 9620
1 2 ¾ dr Trail Boss 23 card and fiber
1 1/8 3 dr Trail Boss 25 card and fiber

Card and fiber wads for each load are: 1 over powder card (OPC) 2 cushion wads (CW) and 1 oversized (14 Ga.) over shot card (OSC) and 40 lbs. pressure.
 
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