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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just watched the post Post Up Your Move where our friend put up some videos of himself. His pre-shot routine includes a simulated mount to the cheek then he lowers the gun in a parallel fashion, though not likely to a FITASC acceptable low level. I used to simulate the mount but decided it was taking up energy and not allowed in FITASC so discarded it. The downside is now I may be occasionally holding the gun above the target line and that can cause shooting over the target. Any thoughts or comments would be welcome. Thanks!
 

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When you go to your hold point, before you move your eyes to their view point, make sure your gun is pointed at or below the line. So, if you fired your gun at the hold point, the charge would go thru or below the line. Works for all types of mounts, particularly a fitasc mount.
 

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If you mount your gun enough, it should point where you expect it to regardless of what you're looking at. And if you happen to be looking at the target, the muzzle should move right into the lead naturally.

It's everything I do after all that that creates the misses :)
 

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I practice my low gun mount inside and I use the line of the ceiling on a long wall. Set the butt of the gun just below your FITASC line and point the muzzles at the line where you visualize your hold point. From inside a room, you can really get a feel for where the barrels are pointing without putting the gun up to your eye. And it doesn't have to be precise. As long as you're in the general area of the hold point on the line, the gun will come up into the line with more and more precision as you practice your mount. Begin the move towards the corner (break point) and bring the gun up as smooth and level as possible so that everything meets at the corner. One thing I'm always careful to watch is how the barrels come up. They need to remain parallel (relative to angle) through the move so that the muzzles don't dip and snap up towards the end of the mount. I see this all the time and it happens because people feel hurried, because they're not practicing their gun mount with purpose, and they bring the back hand up faster than the front. Your hands should move at the same speed.

I also practice my mount directly up into a spot because we always see a fast trap type target on at least one layout. A lot of people miss these targets because they don't have a practiced plan. Its the same move without the turn at the waist, but in this case, you move smoothly up with the hands moving at the same speed (parallel) into your break point and pull the trigger. The key here is to understand exactly where that target will be at the break point before you call pull (landmark the target), to really watch that target through the flash as you begin your move, and to trust yourself to kill it quickly without spending too much time with the target or aiming at it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks Dalwhinnie. One question. If your barrels remain parallel (relative to angle) then would you say they're pointing below the target line at the hold point? I'm asking because I'm inclined to believe a bit lower is much better than higher but know that on occasion mine are getting over the line.
 

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Smoke,

Unless I misunderstood your post a shooter cannot pre-mount the gun and the move it back down to the proper comb hold point. The easiest way to figure out where to start your gun (Comb Hold Point) is to simply to bring your trigger forearm down parallel with the ground. For most shooters this works fine. If the shooter is very tall this might not work because of the long body trunk and the long arms.

Mike McAlpine
The Clay Target Academy
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Mike, I was coming from the point of view that the rule says "3.1.2 Shooters must not shoulder their guns until the target appears." I believe that means no bringing the gun to the face then lowering it to the required ready position. If one could do that then it should be easier to ensure the barrels are not pointing over the target line at the ready position. Perhaos a FITASC rules official could clarify for us?
 

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You should try to keep the gun pointed at the line or as close below it as possible, if that's your preference. But I wouldn't get to concerned about all that. Just practice getting close to the line and bring your gun up smoothly.

As to the rule you're citing, you're not supposed to move (or mount) until you can see the target. When you're setting up for each target, take a moment and visualize the line and think about how long it takes for the target to appear. If you can see the trap, you can move as soon as you call pull. But if the target is set back in a hole in the woods or if its a rabbit set well back in tall grass where you can't see the trap, you can't move until the target is visible to you -> and the judge. A good way to understand the timing of a hidden trap is to count how long it takes for the target to appear using thousands, like one thousand one, one thousand two...etc.
 

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SmokeJS said:
Mike, I was coming from the point of view that the rule says "3.1.2 Shooters must not shoulder their guns until the target appears." I believe that means no bringing the gun to the face then lowering it to the required ready position. If one could do that then it should be easier to ensure the barrels are not pointing over the target line at the ready position. Perhaos a FITASC rules official could clarify for us?
Your point of view is correct, no practice or pre-mounting on the parcour.
 

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SmokeJS said:
Mike, I was coming from the point of view that the rule says "3.1.2 Shooters must not shoulder their guns until the target appears." I believe that means no bringing the gun to the face then lowering it to the required ready position. If one could do that then it should be easier to ensure the barrels are not pointing over the target line at the ready position. Perhaos a FITASC rules official could clarify for us?
Chapter 8.2 International FITASC Rules:
"No pretence/mock shooting is authorised on the shooting ranges or outside. If
a shooter, before calling "ready", engages in mock shooting (e.g. shouldering
the gun and following the theoretical line of the target trajectory) or fires a shot
involuntarily, the referee must give the shooter a warning. After the first
warning, any further occurrence is scored "zero" for the next target hit"
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
My mistake, it's rule 8.2 that applies in this case. Correct concept though.

Dalwhinnie, is your premount routine part of your efforts to keep the barrels pointed just under the target line's hold point?
 

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No. I'm not thinking about anything more specific than getting the gun pointed near the line. All the details get sorted out when the gun moves into my shoulder. The idea of pointing the barrels at the line and the hold point simply follows the straight line concept. Its the closest and most direct path between two points. Eliminating all excess gun movement is the goal.
 

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One top Fitasc shooter told me to place the butt of the gun near my breast-bone in the start position for fast outgoing targets. This placement works for me.

For all others , just keep it simple.

Q: Why would you have the gun muzzles so high that it blocks your vision? That seems easy to fix.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
sera, it's an occasional problem that will creep in and cause a bit of a seesaw effect. The end result being a shot too high. But my hold is not so high as to affect seeing the target. I've read it's better to hold 5 feet too low than 5 inches too high so I'm trying to find way that ensures the muzzles start below the target line wothiut getting silly.
 

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Your FITASC pre shoot routine can include having the but below the line and pointing the shotgun barrel at the insertion point and then the break point. It is completely legal as well as holding the barrel parallel to the ground while viewing targets to see the trajectories. Once in the ready position, you cannot move until YOU see the target. The ref must place himself or herself to be able to view the target as you would while looking at the mount. That is why often at majors, there are two refs.
 

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Henry,

I heard from one of our top reffs that a shooter can't move until the reff sees the target. Is this true? If so it is BS. The reff may not look in the same place for the target that the shooters does. I know this sounds like a joke but this is what the reff told me.

Mike McAlpine

PS Were did you shoot this year? (Across the Pond)
 

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The SHOOTER cannot move until HE sees the target - the ref already knows where it is coming from. At a shoot last year, there was a high L2R from a lift behind trees. Both of us refs pointed out to the shooters, that IF they stood in a certain way AND looked at a certain spot, they would clearly be able to see the target before it cleared the trees and thus they would be legal mounting as the target came off the arm - it really made a difference for the shooters. We felt it was only fair.
 

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Smoke-

When I practice my mount inside I put a mini Mag light in the top bbl (O/U) and it'll tell you pretty quick if you're see/sawing the bbl's or dropping your shoulder during the swing while concentrating on the light.

I use a Fitasc mount about 90 some odd % of the time.
 

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oneounceload said:
The SHOOTER cannot move until HE sees the target - the ref already knows where it is coming from.
Can somebody please quote the reference number that appears in either the Int'l FITASC rules or in the NSCA rule book, that specifically says you cannot move until you see the target?

I see where it says the stock has to be below a certain point. I see where it says both feet have to be within the shooting stand. I see where it says you can't shoulder or mount the gun until the bird appears. I don't see anywhere where it says you can't move until the bird appears.

Am I missing it, or is this another one of those non-existent rules that overzealous people either made up or misinterpreted years ago and it's just never been questioned?
 
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