Shotgun Forum banner
1 - 20 of 43 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
433 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I looked at the abbreviated rules for FITASC in the NSCA rulebook for this.

I was shooting FITASC today, only the third time for me. The first time was at our state shoot. The state shoot program was clear about using factory shells, no reloads.

On the second Parcour today, the ref asked everyone if they knew the rules and ripped off a bunch, including stating 'new' 1 oz shells. I was shooting reloads and continued to shoot that parcour without asking the ref for a rule check. No where in the program for this shoot today stated no reloads.

In the NSCA rulebook, I couldn't find a reference for a requirement for factory loads at all FITASC events.

Any comments about the above?

thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27,021 Posts
As others have said - 28 gram (US 1oz) max load, NO reloads, NO spreaders, NO crocs footwear either
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,839 Posts
The rule is actually quite a bit more detailed than what is pecked at above. I find it difficult to understand how the OP cannot find it, or even what is referred to as "abbreviated rules."

Current (2016) NSCA rules, X-7.8, page 53

7.8 The cartridge shot load must not exceed 28 grams with a maximum tolerance of +2% (equivalent to 1 oz. load). Shot must be spherical, of a regular diameter of 2.0 to 2.5 mm (U.S. No. 7.5, 8, 8.5, 9).

• The use of dispersers, or any other unusual loading device is strictly forbidden, as is the use of reloaded cartridges.

• Mixing different shot of differing dimensions and/or qualities is strictly forbidden, as is the use of black powder and tracer cartridges
.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
663 Posts
The no reloads rule seems a well thought way out to ensure all shooters are on an equal footing. The OP mentioned the referee reviewed the rule(s) but as the OP finished the tournament there was apparently no enforcement other than the honor system. We recently had a similar discussion about coaching by other shooters, referees and trappers where there is no clear rule about what information can be given to a shooter. So my takeaway is that the overall approach to fairness is well intentioned but a bit slack. Might that be because in our sport the ultimate decision of whether or not a target is broken is based on judgement, picture a 50 yard chip, and therefore our sport can generally narrow down the best shooter on a given day, but not 100% definitively? So small things like whether or not reloads are used are easily overlooked for the majority of competitors?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
581 Posts
kjs said:
I looked at the abbreviated rules for FITASC in the NSCA rulebook for this.

I was shooting FITASC today, only the third time for me. The first time was at our state shoot. The state shoot program was clear about using factory shells, no reloads.

On the second Parcour today, the ref asked everyone if they knew the rules and ripped off a bunch, including stating 'new' 1 oz shells. I was shooting reloads and continued to shoot that parcour without asking the ref for a rule check. No where in the program for this shoot today stated no reloads.

In the NSCA rulebook, I couldn't find a reference for a requirement for factory loads at all FITASC events.

Any comments about the above?

thanks
Yeah, you should either be DQ or get a zero on that par. An honorable man would notify shoot management and request a 0 on that par.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,011 Posts
SmokeJS said:
The no reloads rule seems a well thought way out to ensure all shooters are on an equal footing. The OP mentioned the referee reviewed the rule(s) but as the OP finished the tournament there was apparently no enforcement other than the honor system. We recently had a similar discussion about coaching by other shooters, referees and trappers where there is no clear rule about what information can be given to a shooter. So my takeaway is that the overall approach to fairness is well intentioned but a bit slack. Might that be because in our sport the ultimate decision of whether or not a target is broken is based on judgement, picture a 50 yard chip, and therefore our sport can generally narrow down the best shooter on a given day, but not 100% definitively? So small things like whether or not reloads are used are easily overlooked for the majority of competitors?
There's nothing slack about it at all; the rule is detailed and clear, as DrMike points out above, and it's not subject to a mistake in judgement as may happen when seeing (or not seeing) a visible chip at 50 yards. The ref explained the rule and the OP elected to ignore it, somehow thinking that it should have been in the shoot program (yeah, that's where I always go to find NSCA and FITASC rules… :roll: ) and not even asking the ref for a clarification. Most times I've shot FITASC the ref has checked everyone's ammo before starting, but in the absence of that his / her explanation of the rule and the "honor system" should be enough.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
663 Posts
Agreed the rule is clear and obvious. But given this shooter shot at least part of this tournament with reloads I'm inclined to think enforcement at this event might reasonably be described as slack. And it seems apparent the honor system didn't work. That seems like something that's not new, or likely to stop, without a reasonable attempt at enforcement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,839 Posts
Short of shooters showing up at the parcour with no ammo, and using ammo that has been stored at the parcour for them to use, this rule can only be "enforced" through an honor system.

It is not that hard to put together reloads in pristine hulls with perfect crimps, so I as a referee really have no idea what is truly inside a shell when someone shows it to me. If I don't see someone take a shell out of a brand-new box removed from a sealed flat of boxes, I can only go by what is printed on the outside of the hull... which only tells me what the factory put in the hull the first time it was loaded.

So I do what I can. I inform every squad as they show up that FITASC can only be shot with factory shells with at most 28 gr or 1 oz of shot between sizes #9 and #7.5. This usually results in a majority of folks volunteering hulls for me to examine, and I ask to see the ammo carried by the rest. But I don't frisk shooters, and so have no idea what other ammo they are carrying.

Over the years, I cannot count the number of obviously reloaded shells and/or hulls marked 1-1/8 oz I've picked up after a squad has left my parcour... and unless I've seen who left that hull behind, there's really nothing I can do about it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
663 Posts
Thanks DrMike. Given the rule is often ignored, and enforcement is difficult, then the integrity of the sport might always be a little bit suspect except perhaps at the highest levels where enforcement is far more likely and the penalty for getting caught is a real deterrent.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27,021 Posts
So small things like whether or not reloads are used are easily overlooked for the majority of competitors?
No, they are not. It is a major rule and is vigorously enforced - or should be.

This usually results in a majority of folks volunteering hulls for me to examine, and I ask to see the ammo carried by the rest.
You can always stick your hand in their pouches and randomly withdraw samples for inspection - I don't, but if someone REALLY wants to game the system, they will find a way - IMO, 99.9% are honest and want to abide by the rules. It is usually a new person trying it for the first time that doesn't realize their 1-1/8 loads that are OK for sporting are not OK for FITASC. To me, it would really simplify things to just make 1oz the max for ALL sporting events
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27,021 Posts
I had one gent show up for a 20 gauge event with 1oz loads - he seemed shocked that in a 20 event he was limited to 7/8. Now, I'm not friends, but I do know him and looked right at him with one of those "Ya gotta be kiddin' me" looks - evcn his long-time shooting buddy gave him a ration. Luckily for him, one of the other guys had enough ammo to lend him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,839 Posts
oneounceload said:
I had one gent show up for a 20 gauge event with 1oz loads - he seemed shocked that in a 20 event he was limited to 7/8.
This is a Sporting Clays rule, not a FITASC rule.
There is no maximum payload per gauge in FITASC as there is in Sporting Clays.

If you can find a factory that will jam 1 oz of shot in a .410, it's legal to shoot it in FITASC.
 

·
Premium Member
2006 Krieghoff K80 Plantation Grade and a Beretta
Joined
·
8,430 Posts
I have never been able to figure out the statement "I didn't know the rules!"

No matter what sport you are in you should know the rules before you do it!
 
1 - 20 of 43 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top