[BUCK]

For those you that have shot fitase, and sporting clays; which one do you like the most, and why?

I know both are a lot alike, but from what I understand fitase has more traps at each station, but less stations, and sporting clays has less traps but more stations (correct me if I am wrong). I've heard that fitase is harder because of longer shots, but someone can setup long shots in sporting clays also.

It seems to me that anything that Americans play Europe takes it and changes it, then calls it the more proper way of doing it, and before you remind me that Britain came up with sporting clays and trap; what I mean is that when America adopts a sport and it becomes popular, Europe changes the rules a little and calls it a different name (Olympic trap, international skeet, and fitase).

 

[Ulysses]

I don't think I would blame the Europeans for screwing up OUR shooting games. I think it would be more correctly viewed the other way around. :lol: But that's beside the point, really.

To answer your question, I prefer sporting clays to FITASC. As you correctly point out, sporting clays shots can be made ridiculously long and difficult if the target setter wants to. I like sporting better for 2 main reasons. One, the pace of shooting sporting clays is faster, while FITASC can be agonizingly slow. Second, sporting clays is usually considerably cheaper to shoot than FITASC. This allows sporting clays to run a considerably larger number of shooters through the course in much less time than can be accomodated on a FITASC course.

 

[BUCK]

I not trying to be ugly to Europe. What I mean is that they have brought several shooting sports to us, which is great, but is seams that when they catch on here. Someone changes it around to different.

 

[uglydog]

I prefer new style FITASC, then sporting clays, and lastly old style FITASC. The new style with 5 machines and 3 pegs at each parcour moves very quickly, usually much quicker than sporting as the shooters are generally more serious and experienced than the general sporting crowd. The cost of FITASC is a major drawback adn that is the major draw of sporting.
As for "Europe" changing the rules of "American" clays, I agree with Ulysses. Sporting clays and FITASC were both started in Britain and France respectively and then introduced here. International Skeet is closer to the original concept of skeet with its gun down start, the rule allowing premounting was changed in the U.S. back in the 50s or 60s to allow higher scores. We also started allowing a premounted gun here in the States for sporting, I don't think it is permitted in England. As trap is a substitute for live pigeon shooting (started in England or the Continent) where two shots are allowed and multiple traps are used, I would say that the U.S. version is a pale shadow of the original. I guess I do not see Europe changing the rules of a popular U.S. game, I see the U.S. watering down the original game to increase scores.

 

[Burnt Powder]

I saw a little exerpt on TV of a tournament between the US and England in Sporting clays. A young Britt. (20 I think) won it. They showed him shooting a few stations and all I could see was one rock, but he shot twice. Is the international version of Sporting Clays a 2 shot per rock game or did I/the camera not pick up a first rock? I understand International trap allows 2 shots per rock? Is your score better if you break say 25 with 27 shots rather than someone who took 30 shots? Or is 25 dead birds just 25 dead birds?

BP

 

[uglydog]

You likely only saw one of the two targets thrown but one is allowed two shots at any station, even if a single target is thrown. This is called "full use of gun" and is predicated on a double barrel gun. The number of shots taken is not important, just the number of broken targets. Ties are determined with shoot offs.

 

[old fart]

In English sporting the gun can be premounted and some of our best shots do shoot and win using a premounted hold position.

 

[Roger Gascoigne]

Buck,

If you eat meat, do you prefer prime rib or Delmonico, I like both and will eat either when I am in a restaurant.

It's the same with FITASC and Sporting. I will shoot either. The major issue with FITASC is it takes more to arrange and costs more and hence is less available.

In "Down the Line" the British equivalent (almost) of American Trap, a clay broken with a first barrel gets three points, with the second barrel gets two points. So you see scores of 295/300 meaning all clays were broken and 5 were second barrel shots. A perfect score would be 300/300. The Brits have not reduced the Trap thrower angles the way the US Trap rules do, you get a wider and higher cone of possible shots.

UK Sporting has always allowed free choice of mount. In the UK you will get more targets thrown where it is an advantage to shoot gun down; in the US it seems to be the other way. In sporting there is no definition of gun down. In FITASC, gun down is very tightly specified and if you move the gun to start your mount before the clay is visible, you are penalised. Initially in the US the NSCA had a gun down rule for sporting, but it was poorly enforced, so they went to 'free choice'. Unfortunately target setters then started to throw targets that had to be shot gun up. This seems to have stopped at the better clubs.

FITASC has more single birds and yes two shots are allowed. Many US Sporting courses do not use singles in competition. I have heard many reasons given, like, it slows down the squad or it costs more in show birds. I find these reasons are mistaken, and when I say, OH, they do that at Northbrook, or Detroit or Dallas or…..name your club, and it does not slow down the squad, people look at me strangely (they do that a lot I know, and I am used to it :? ).

I think English skeet is harder than the US version, I do not know if the US version (which was the ORIGINAL) was shot gun down, used faster birds and a pair on Stand 4 as English Skeet does? Anyone know?

I think the fall off in participation of Trap and to a lesser extent Skeet in the US is a consequence of the easier targets and the unwillingness to relax the 3 hole rule.

Sporting is very much more available in the UK than here. You could shoot 4 competitions in a weekend without leaving a 50 mile radius of your home. I think that is 'more popular' than anywhere I have seen in the US?

Roger

 

[BUCK]

Roger,

You are correct that most US shooting sports are easier that in the UK and EU. I think that is because shooting sports (not counting hunting) are not as popular here as in the UK. We are still having to advertive and promote the sport to get people to come. If a beginner comes to a range to shoot for the first time, and he only hits 10 out of 100, he will more than likely not come back. I think the UK has enough participation to step it up a notch or two, and still maintain enough shooters. Maybe I was wrong with my statement above. It just seams that America and the rest of the world can not get together on their sports, whom ever fault it may be.

Back to the FITASC vs Sporting Clay question. If you shoot a round of 100 shots, which one will you normally see the most different type presentations, and how many stations will you shoot? I know this will very some in Sporting Clay?