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" Greetings and thank you for stopping by Dan Schindler's Sporting Clays Q&A Session #6 - The Truth,…The Whole Truth,… & Nothing But The Truth
Dan Schindler, Paragon School of Sporting Inc.'s Master Sporting Clays Instructor/Coach responds to shooter's question:
Q: In your opinion, what's the leading cause of disappointment in our game?
A: That's easy. Unreasonable expectations. No one likes to shoot sporting clays scores below their expectations. Why did I say "unreasonable" expectations? Because too many folks believe that when they shoot, the target is supposed to break. Our game doesn't work that way. To build long runs of X's, respect for each and every target is required, not optional. Wanting to break the target-needing to break the target-both come a distant second to the skill required to break the target. The trouble starts when expectations typically exceed skill levels. When the trap machine fires, desire and determination are great things, but cannot make up for lack of skill. Regardless of country or course, the clay target imposes strict demands if we wish to break it. Any compromise we make in those demands results in a missed bird."
 

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hopper810 said:
" Greetings and thank you for stopping by Dan Schindler's Sporting Clays Q&A Session #6 - The Truth,…The Whole Truth,… & Nothing But The Truth
Dan Schindler, Paragon School of Sporting Inc.'s Master Sporting Clays Instructor/Coach responds to shooter's question:
Q: In your opinion, what's the leading cause of disappointment in our game?
A: That's easy. Unreasonable expectations. No one likes to shoot sporting clays scores below their expectations. Why did I say "unreasonable" expectations? Because too many folks believe that when they shoot, the target is supposed to break. Our game doesn't work that way. To build long runs of X's, respect for each and every target is required, not optional. Wanting to break the target-needing to break the target-both come a distant second to the skill required to break the target. The trouble starts when expectations typically exceed skill levels. When the trap machine fires, desire and determination are great things, but cannot make up for lack of skill. Regardless of country or course, the clay target imposes strict demands if we wish to break it. Any compromise we make in those demands results in a missed bird."
Hi Bud,
Sure sounds like good advice to me. Now if only I could hit the darn things life would be great!! :mrgreen:

Pk
 

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I am in total agreement here. That is why I created my Target Reading and Presentation Seminar. (TRAPS) If you can't figure out what a target is doing the best mental game, gun fit and practice don't mean a flip.

Mike McAlpine
The Clay Target Academy
www.claytarget.us

PS Yes the is a plug for my school but I still agree with what has been said by two very good instructors.
 

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I have scratched, clawed, and fought my way to AA over a span of roughly 15 years (I'm 65). I've taken lessons, shot thousands and thousands of practice targets, and gone to as many challenging tournaments as my pocketbook could stand. I've got 5 punches so far this year.

I still have a hard time reading certain technical targets and figuring out how to approach them.
 

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Well that bucks me up. You guys are saying exactly what I think my problem is reading the clays clays properly and maintaining my focus on every station and clay. Anyone know of some decent video on reading clays and maintaining mental focus?
I also need to practice more, when you are shooting for points your not willing to experiment and risk a miss. So I need to find a decent sporting clays range within the metro Atlanta area to practice at. It doesn't even have to have a sporting clays course, a five-stand will do for practice. Any ideas from GA shooters?

:wink:
 

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Pete, I think highly of you and your teachings, and I do believe lead can be taught by reading your book, but I don't believe you can teach how to read a target in a book. It has to be seen and shot. But I could be wrong.
 

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LoFlyer,
You can buy Pete's book for a fraction of the cost of a single shooting session , and it will save you the cost of many flats of shells pointlessly wasted trying to understand on your own the 'Logic of Lead'. Before you become a great writer you need to know at least the alphabet..... :wink:
 

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Thank you, Pete. Well explained.

The misses I make are largely because of technicality and terrain. Incomers low to the ground, high crossers that die and drop that I cannot decide to shoot as a crosser or a dropping target, etc.

Some are physical errors (gun mount) and miss-pulls (trigger flinch), some are focus and riding the target too long. But I have always been guilty of over lead in most of these. Any suggestions?
 

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pete blakeley said:
But reading targets is triggonemetry and ballistic science and the book explains this.
This is a lot like the triangle method taught by Dan Carlisle and others. Where you are at in relation to the trap and your BP and HP all form triangles. As to lead it's different for everyone and if they see it at the barrel or the target along with which way they obtain it.
 

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Golden Eagle , you have actually diagnosed a lot of your issues in your own post. Read and digest. :D
If you have a look at Dan Schindler's website , each month he discusses issues that we all may have had in the field, he may not give you the answers , but he gives you food for thought.All instructors give you advice but rely upon you to book a lesson for their income.
There is no substitute for good practice and good trigger time, I think I could advise most shooters how to overcome any problem in writing , but YOU need the good practice to implement any improvement. It is of no use at all just blindly firing at clays without , movement and faith in the correct method and using the correct technique for a problem target.
 

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It is only as hard as you not being willing to put in the trigger time to learn.

After I shot a few tournaments and shot in the low 60's, which was far above DFL, I decided that what I knew from bird hunting was not enough. I wanted to really learn to shoot. Where I shot there was really no good inst'r to help , so , being half-way logical and realizing how the target setters were trying to fool me , I set out to learn.

I wanted to learn all the methods. So I went to the skeet field and memorized what the "leads" were relative to the method I used.

Then I went to the sporting field and figured out to take the targets in the sweet spot , before and after , learning how to use the methods that were right at that moment for that target. You never know what the target setter will throw. Back then I shot 3 flats of shells a week, training.

I no longer have that much energy. But when I get to , I still practice the same ways.

You will never learn how to read a target posting on the Internet. You have to go do it.
 

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Conversely , if you do not want to or simply can't put in the practice, quit *****ing about every little thing--like not winning. If you don't practice you don't deserve to win. And constantly looking for a "trick" to add x's to your score. There's no trick.

What's the best shell , or the best choke or the best blunderbuss. NONE of that matters. Learning to shoot matters. If there's a nearby decent coach , good for you . That will help shorten the learning curve (a tad). Trigger time is the secret. Not internet BS.

Jeez Louise :wink:
 

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You can practice all week long and shoot thousands of shells, but if you are doing it wrong, you are only reinforcing it. Somewhere down the line, you'll need to have someone who is qualified watch you and tell you what you are doing wrong.
 

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Another (mostly) false truism. I have seen a lot of shotgun "coaches" who could not teach someone how to eat cookies , something my grandkids and dogs learned 100% on their own.

They charge $$$ to yell "You're behind." They haven't a clue why.
 

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Different things work for different people Sera. While I have been able to figure out a lot on my own and have never taken a lesson, I don't see that working for everyone in my area. I have watched people shoot thousands of rounds on their own with ZERO improvement in their shooting ability, and I've also seen folks add 10 targets to their scores with a single lesson from a qualified instructor. Obviously, as in any profession, some instructors are terrible. I personally recommend that all new/struggling shooters find a qualified instructor to teach them some basics that will likely make their shooting experience more enjoyable.
 

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I realize as a relatively new shooter (one year) that reading the target is one of my problems because if I can't read it, I don't know the lead and line. I have had instructors but I am practicing with the shot cam so when I hit one out of four clays on a station, I can look back at the video and see what the lead and line actually was that resulted in the hit.
 

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sera said:
Learning to shoot matters. If there's a nearby decent coach , good for you . That will help shorten the learning curve (a tad). Trigger time is the secret. Not internet BS.
Could I figure it out on my own? Probably. But I don't have that kind of time to devote to doing something wrong before a light bulb goes off in my head.

I know there are people out there that know more about shooting than I do, so I use them to make my learning more effective. Not every one of them is a great teacher. Not every one of the great teachers will be able to communicate effectively with you. So when you find one (or two), you develop a rapport with them and progress much faster than you could on your own, in my opinion.

I wouldn't be where I am today without the help of Tom Fiumarello and Anthony Matarese Jr. (and Ed Davies constantly reinforcing the AIM method for me).
 
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