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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Last month I took the gun entirely apart, sprayed it out with gun scrubber, compressed air, rem oil and compressed air again, thing is spotless, lubed and greased. I just took it all apart again this evening and everything looks fine, checked the firing pins all looked good. I'm going to take dads apart tomorrow, he seems to have more problems with FTF than I did. Wondering how many rounds firing pins and springs are good for ?? I guess I have about 7,500 rounds total..

Like I said before, we only had 1 FTF in about 8K with federals and domed primers, since we bought the gun clubs for reloading w/ the flat primers and then the fiocchi's to reload them, the problem seems to have worstened.

I resized and reprimed some shells this evening, backed the primer seating punch off till it just barely seated the primers... I also checked my remaing reloads and with a straight edge across the shells there is barely any visible light between the straight edge and the primer, pretty much exactly like the factory gun clubs... hull rims don't seem to be dished at all....

I have a e-mail into wolf to see if they have a HD spring for the SE's or maybe can cross-reference one... Thanks again for all the suggestions,,,, in the end I hope we dont have to switch to federal primers as we both have 5K worth of Fiocchi's, maybe I could sell them locally...
 

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Hey guys just my 2 cents of info.
I just shot a flat of factory GC and out of the 250 I had about
6 FTF. I was shooting them out of a S&W model 1000 auto.
We put the FTF in a Ithica pump and they all fired the second time.
Are the hull rims thinner and the shell seated deeper in the chamber. and maybe with a weak and or shorter firing pin adding up the FTF????
 

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Got it curly & DL, thanks.

Chris, I think you can work your way out of this problem... The Fio's a very good primers. Sounds like the Wolf springs might help. As I said, I have had this problem with factory Remington Heavy game loads, Which I believe... also use Cheddite primers now too... Haven't had an FTF in a long time now. Don't think it ever happened with a 410 or 28... it was only in the 20g, and using the same primers for all.

bd
 

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chris288 said:
Last month I took the gun entirely apart, sprayed it out with gun scrubber, compressed air, rem oil and compressed air again, thing is spotless, lubed and greased..
:shock: :shock:
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Did Remington change their primers ?? The recent batch of gun-clubs we bought seem to be different, not only that we have had more FTF's with factory gun clubs than all others combined.
 

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Brass versus steel primer? When Browning says "Browning -the Best There Is", they are implying that they can fix your light strikes. I'd call them and see what they say and how they say it. First ask to make sure you weren't referred to a "Customer Service Representative" in India.

I am sure when Remington is sourcing Cheddite and Fiocchi primers for use in their "factory" ammo, they must realize that they are taking a chance on "factory seconds" , no matter how good their quality control sampling, they can't pick up 8 FTF's in 5K rounds. Its the same as Radio Shack buying someone else's flashlight batteries and putting their name on them. They are buying factory seconds - human nature. Wake up America!
 

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I've had FTF with Gun Club hulls and Fiocchi primers out of three different Model 12's. This will occurr about once every 25 shells. On another Model 12, I've never had a problem. Light primer strikes and the shell always went boom on the second try. Given their age I figured the springs had gotten weak and have replaced them on two of the guns. No further problems. The Fiocchi's work fine out of my other guns.
 

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Chris, I have used FIO 616/209 in AA reds, Grays, Rem. Game loads, STS, and Rem. shur shot - no problems at around 15,000 rounds thru autos and OU - FWIW.
 

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I too have been using the FIO primers in GC's, other Rem's and Win. cases for close to 10K rounds and not had a single misfire from my son's 1100 or my Beretta, Benelli's, so I highly doubt it is the primers (unless you got a bad batch and then one would think it would be more prevalent). My guess would be the gun, probably the spring pressure too.
BD...to explain the effects of spring pressure a little differantly (so that you can get your head wrapped around it properly); even though the firing pins have a fixed movement area, the moment they start to make contact with the primer, they begin to loose velocity quicky and may not be bottoming out before they reach their shoulders. If they have more force behind them, there is a much better chance that they will make it to max protrusion.
 

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Chris I have been using Fio 616's in Rem Gun Clubs, Black Game Loads, Sure Shot, STS & Nitros with zero FTF in my Beretta and Verona O/U's. I have loaded at least 10K in the past year. I have CCI 209's (a domed type primer) if you want to try them as I am near you but I think it must be some thing in the load or your pins. Let me know if you want some help.
 

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I have loaded about 30,000 Fio's without any trouble but I do know that the steel GC hulls and the FIO primers load different than the brass GC hulls.

I wonder if the problem might be that the FIO's do not have as much radius on the top as Win primers and when you seat them they may push the primer in farther. I can feel the difference seating the FIO's for the first time in REM and AA hulls. They always work for me in any of the following: 3 Guerinis, DT10, Benelli Supersport, SKB sxs, and Winchester 23 sxs, Beretta 390.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
My dad and I inspected many factory, once fired, and reloaded GC's, We have pretty much figured out the problem is the inconsistancy of the gun-clubs themselves. From the factory they are domed, mushroomed, dished, over-seated, un-even, and reloading them seems to just compound the problem..

There seem to be a lot of posts lately about factory GC's not going bang, we've had about 6 in the last 300.. Using fio primers, STS's, and AA's hulls I have had zero FTF's in about 200 reloads..
 

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chris288 said:
Alright, you guys that bet money that the primers were " over-seated " my address is as follows.... Just kidding, 8) When I got home tonight, I took some advice and checked the remaining 250 or so reloads I still have, there is absolutely no difference in the heights of the primers of the factory gun clubs, factory federals or once fired gun-clubs I reloaded. I checked with a straight edge and a caliper they were all within a thousandths or so, infact some of the factory G-C's were lower than mine. .
Were you measuring in the wrong place? It's the base of the hull that has the problems... The primer has to stop at it's lip, it's the bases that gets pushed in because they are weak.

bd
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
bel_dad said:
chris288 said:
Alright, you guys that bet money that the primers were " over-seated " my address is as follows.... Just kidding, 8) When I got home tonight, I took some advice and checked the remaining 250 or so reloads I still have, there is absolutely no difference in the heights of the primers of the factory gun clubs, factory federals or once fired gun-clubs I reloaded. I checked with a straight edge and a caliper they were all within a thousandths or so, infact some of the factory G-C's were lower than mine. .
Were you measuring in the wrong place? It's the base of the hull that has the problems... The primer has to stop at it's lip, it's the bases that gets pushed in because they are weak.

bd
I was paying attention to the primer and it's relative height compared to the base, not the condition of the base itself. I dont think my re-primed reload's were the problem, the factory gun clubs are. we inspected many factory fresh shells and they are all over the place, the bases are dished, primers over-seated, warped, mushroomed ( although I suspect these should fire better ). I'm attributing my dads excessive FTF's due to gummed up firing pins, + the inconsistancy of the GC's, after a thorough cleaning he only had 1 factory GC FTF this weekend, I have had zero FTF with any AA or STS hull I have reloaded..

we bought about 4K worth of GC's specifically with the idea of reloading them, now I find myself scrouging at the range for all the AA's and STS's I can find.. kinda sucks, but if your gonna spend the time and money to reload, might as well do it with a premium shell... now I just need to seperate my scrounging and re-loading from my shooting, as that seems to be suffering since I started all this, too busy looking in the bins for empties instead of concentrating on my shooting...
 

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I know that you really don't want to hear this, but I have far fewer problems with the Gun Clubs and STS style shells when combined with import primers, than with the AA shells and import primers.
Keep your options open.
 

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Chris, you sure are learning a lot in a short time, welcome to reloading! I enjoy the learning and the challenge every time I do it, and it makes shooting even more fun for me.

bd
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Curly-Nohair said:
I know that you really don't want to hear this, but I have far fewer problems with the Gun Clubs and STS style shells when combined with import primers, than with the AA shells and import primers.
Keep your options open.
I'm totally open to what works. I'm sure the gunclubs and fio's work fine in auto's and most o/u's, but the combination of inconsistant warped steel bases, and the design of the Select Energy angular firing pins, ALA Browning, contribute to problems. seems the AA's and STS overall, load and shoot better..

BD.... Your right, I find reloading interesting and fun, not as much fun as shooting, I just need to keep the two seperated.. since getting started reloading my scores have really suffered, I find myself more interested in what kind of empties i'm gonna find at the next station instead of concentrating on hitting clays,,, bad combination.
 

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Chris, yep... been there, done that... :lol:

Clearing the field of prime picks before you shoot should help. If you drop a hull or shell, or spot a prime hull you have missed, don't pick it up until you have completed the station you are on.

Your scores will climb again when you have regained confidence in your loads. And might even go beyond what you started with once you discover how great reloads really are.

Glad to hear your back on track. I knew these guys around here could help. Best to you and your dad,
bd
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
bel_dad said:
Chris, yep... been there, done that... :lol:

Clearing the field of prime picks before you shoot should help. If you drop a hull or shell, or spot a prime hull you have missed, don't pick it up until you have completed the station you are on.

Your scores will climb again when you have regained confidence in your loads. And might even go beyond what you started with once you discover how great reloads really are.

Glad to hear your back on track. I knew these guys around here could help. Best to you and your dad,
bd
Thanks !! same to you.... :)
 
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