GunsAmerica-is it safe?

I have watched this tread develop before replying.
GunsAmercia is only an entity that connects sellers with purchasers. As such, it is neither safe or unsafe. What is safe or unsafe are the individuals that use it to connect.
I NEVER purchase from an individual unless it is face to face, period. If the seller is a dealer, I verify that he has an actual business storefront and I contact other dealers that i know to be honest and ask if they know this individual and have done business with him and is he honest. With that done, I then compile my list of questions to be answered by the seller and contact him direct for answers. If that works out I will send money. I will NEVER send money to a non FFL Dealer.
Auctions are akin to gambling and the firearms for sale are not top quality. "I won" something is not true, you actually paid money plus the % for the auction house and whatever else. I don't use or look at auction sites.
There are enough good quality guns around sold by reputable dealers that might cost a little more dollars to avoid the pitfalls of dealing with individuals sellers over the Internet. -Dick

Budrichard, you must have a lot of time available to shop and a lot of money available for gas.

With all due respect, it's simply fallacious to state that a gun auction is "akin to gambling and the firearms for sale are not top quality." Yes, many inferior guns get sold online...just as many inferior guns get sold in face-to-face transactions.

Many of the dealers with whom buyers deal face-to-face also have a thriving business selling their inventory online--either in online classifieds or on auction sites. In fact, in most cases, the revenue from their online sales subsidizes their storefront. I don't think that they are going to treat their online customers or auction winners any differently from the way they treat a customer in their shop--not if they value their reputation. In many respects, the online shopping world has far more robust quality control, customer satisfaction, and verification tools built into it than conventional face-to-face commerce.

Moreover, to state that ""I won" something is not true, you actually paid money plus the % for the auction house and whatever else" ignores the fact that any seller's overhead is always built into the price of his product. Do you think that you are somehow not paying for the privilege of standing in a dealer's shop when you insist on buying only in a face-to-face setting? Or that the 8.25% sales tax one must pay for any gun purchased within my state doesn't make an out-of-state, and often online, purchase much more attractive? The overhead of running a conventional shop is far greater for dealers than the fees charged by most online auction or sales sites. I'll gladly accept the responsibility and risk of an online sale if the savings will justify it.

Finally, when you state that "I don't use or look at auction sites," how can you substantiate your negative view of them as anything more than a product of just naivete or ignorance? Internet gun sales and auction sites are thriving precisely because many buyers have found that there are not, in fact, "enough good quality guns around" within easy driving distance of where they live. The Internet gives them instant access to far more guns than they'll ever have the time or money to buy, and most are, in fact, "sold by reputable dealers."

In short, Budrichard, the Internet has opened up the marketplace for almost any commodity--including firearms--in a way that has improved selection exponentially and cut overhead significantly. Yes, there are inherent risks in buying any item online, just as there are inherent risks in buying in a face-to-face encounter. The solution is learning how to become a saavy shopper in a new, bigger, lower-cost marketplace.

BONASA

"Rules of Conduct: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=1943
5. No personal attacks. You can attack an opinion or post, but not the person who posted.
Bottom line...we just try to be helpful and friendly."

The original post was "Looking to buy a gun through the GunsAmerica website. Does anyone have experience purchasing a shotgun through GunsAmerica, good or bad? Any pitfalls or suggestions?"

You did not answer the post but spent a long critque of my post. If you had expressed your thoughts and answered the original post, i would not be posting this.
Your clasiffication of my statements as "fallacious, naivete or ignorance, is simply unacceptable and an unwarranted attack on this forum. I simply put forth my viewpoints. You are entitled to express your viewpoints but not entitled to classify my viewpoints.

"the Internet has opened up the marketplace for almost any commodity--including firearms--in a way that has improved selection exponentially and cut overhead significantly. Yes, there are inherent risks in buying any item online, just as there are inherent risks in buying in a face-to-face encounter. The solution is learning how to become a saavy shopper in a new, bigger, lower-cost marketplace."

The Internet has in fact increased the price of collectable guns by allowing that person who will spend the highest price to connnect with that person who has a collectable to offer. The Internet has also brought many more purchasers into the collecting field who are not experienced and do not collect a lot and who will pay any price. The 'I have got to have it syndrome and I better get it before the price goes up' is rampant. I have collected for over 30+ years and watched selling change from local Gunshows, local dealers and Shotgun News/Gun List to Internet web sites and Internet auction sites. Gun shows are dead long with the News and List. The recent CADA show in Chicago is an example. Few dealers with collectable material and about 65% of the show was non firearms.
At an auction, there is no 3 day inspection period as a reputable dealer will offer. I reiterate, auctions along with eBay are akin to gambling because you are caught up in the reward/anticipation syndrome.
If you think the individuals that sell guns at auction are honest and the guns are as represented, then I have to assume your auction experience is minimal. Viewing a firearm by a picture and description over the Internet is a crap shoot.
The majority of guns I see for sale on GunsAmerica are over priced hoping for that individual with either no experience and spendable cash or who must have that item. They simply are not priced to sell. Reading the description of the average item goes like this: Mint condition, blueing worn in a few places, a few nicks in the stock, a few modifications done that increase value, limited production in that only made 5000, a real buy! Many of the descriptions do not post any condition or are akin to fraudulent in thier description.
You can and I have, connected to dealers with good product to sell using GunsAmercia but only after going through the verification steps I have outlined and the final 3 day inspection.

"I'll gladly accept the responsibility and risk of an online sale if the savings will justify it."
There may also be difference in the cost of the firearms that are purchased that determines the amount of risk one accepts. Purchasing collector grade firearms is expensive and must be done with caution. Sending x amount of money to an individual without any storefront or verification from other dealers will eventually result in dissapointment. The question is how much dissapointment/money can you tolerate.
I also purchase collectables from eBay and I can unequivocally tell you that much of what is sold is overpriced. eBay's only saving grace is that it does allow you to find just about whatever you want. Many times I look on eBay and find that I can purchase the item for less from an Internet dealer.
I found one individual selling a signed sporting book for much more than the retail value because it was signed by the writer. A Goggle search found that you could purchase the book directly from the writer signed for list cost.

The Internet is where gun sales are at these days and that is a fact of life. The 'old days' will not return. Therefore a new standard of purchasing must developed. The original poster was looking for advice/experience. I hope I gave some good conservative advice in my original post. I did not attack anyones post amd obeyed the rules of this Forum and used good Internet ettiquette. -Dick

Red-Leg said:

budrichard said:

I don't use or look at auction sites.
-Dick

Click to expand...

Then why are you responding to a post entitled "GunsAmerica-is it safe?"

Nobody was attacking you or your post, but for somebody who does not "use or look at auction sites" stating that "...the firearms for sale are not top quality." is going to draw some direct responses, particularly from those who actually use auction sites.

Click to expand...

Excellent point Red-Leg. I did not read the post that budrichard was complaining about as being a personal attack. It seemed to me to be reasoned defense of auction sites and how they can be used to purchase guns and the advantages to the buyers to do that, for example trying to purchase guns that may or may not be available in that person's area or that one dealer has a monopoly on the market, thus controlling the price for that particular gun in that area.

Having bought many guns both on and off line, there are advantages to doing it both ways.

Honestly, I prefer (like budrichard) to buy guns face to face, because for me it is much more about comparative fit, i.e. being able to hold and handle the various guns that I am thinking about purchasing than it is about getting the absolute best deal on price, although that is #2 on the list. Another consideration is supporting my local dealers who I want to stay in business, so often if the prices are close even if they are a bit higher, often I will get it through them.

However, having said that, there are alot of guns that my local dealers do not carry that I would like to and have considered buying. Also, when I do know that the gun is a good fit, then I can price shop online and sometimes it is lower, sometimes higher, but most often lower. I also insist on a 3 day inspection period. Most (90%) of the sellers that I have dealt with had no problem with that, the ones that did, certainly did not get my sale. Gun Broker.com and Auction Arms seem to have more safeguards than Guns America, but if you are smart about what you are doing, then you should have minimal problems.

For example, one of my local dealers is offering the FAIR/Rizzini LT-20 and LT-35's for $1500 and $1700 respectively. Not a bad price, but I found the exact same guns NIB for considerably than that from a dealer via Guns America.

Shopping online is like anything else. Be smart about it, keep records and documentation, ask questions, shop around and don't be afraid to walk away.

Brad

Hi TQ
99.99% of what was posted is great advice, I would add know all you can about what you are buying ( ie; if you are buying an L C Smith know your subject)...

I have not used G-A yet but have used GB, AA, and so far so good,,, G-A gives an area code on the seller so a good "check-out" is just a matter of a few phone calls to the BBB, local dealers, even the police just to see if the guy is legit.

If you are buying new guns they do have a warranty,used is a crap-shoot, Dealers cant afford any bad reps. because of the www and great forums like this one, buy from an idivid. and you do run a larger risk, however you could ask the seller to do a sale 3rd party through an ffl dealer in his home town (but you will prob. have to pay for that).

Me I kinda like this whole idea, its like a gunshow every day and it dosnt cost me $10 bucks every time I walk in and I dont have to look at the flea market CRAP.........

I started out collecting milsurp rifles useing a C&R ffl, but my first love is shotguns, I have bought a lot of rifles and a couple of shotguns on auction sites and done as well as I would have at a gunshow, sometimes better, right now I am realy into american classics like Parker, L C Smith etc. I just bought a nice Parker Trojan for $500.00..

Anyway thats just my .02