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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
How many common variations of RED Winchester AA 12 gauge hulls exist? I'm aware of four:

1. Older very low brass hulls (maybe 20-30 years old?).

2. Satin-finish, large/square logo hulls (maybe 10-15 years old?)

3. New/current shiny finish hulls with "no logo" small lettering AA hulls

4. New/current shiny finish hulls with "no logo" small lettering AA hulls; with "HS" stamp on brass base.

a. Are there other variations?

b. Can one use the same reload data for all variations?

c. Is there any significant difference in the manufacture, and/or internal capacity?

d. Is there a previously published reference article on this topic?

THANKS for your comments....

gold40
 

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rkittine said:
How about the grey ones too.
And the Silver ones AACF -Handicap
And the black ones-Seldom seen
And the Orange ones. -Tracer shells
AA changes something about the hull writing periodically for quality control, or just to have an indicator for time frames. So there is a whole bunch of variations.

Allegedly all recipes will be safe, they just might not fit well without jiggering the shot capacity of the wad.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I only reload the 12 gauge RED Winchester AA hulls.

At the local Sporting Clay ranges, I can easily pick up all the "new" once-fired AA hulls that I need/want. I leave the other colors for other re-loaders.

Does anyone know what the "HS" stamping represents?

gold40
 

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Yes I'm old enough to remember the black ones.
 

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gold40 said:
How many common variations of RED Winchester AA 12 gauge hulls exist? I'm aware of four:

1. Older very low brass hulls (maybe 20-30 years old?).

2. Satin-finish, large/square logo hulls (maybe 10-15 years old?)

3. New/current shiny finish hulls with "no logo" small lettering AA hulls

4. New/current shiny finish hulls with "no logo" small lettering AA hulls; with "HS" stamp on brass base.

a. Are there other variations?

b. Can one use the same reload data for all variations?

c. Is there any significant difference in the manufacture, and/or internal capacity?

d. Is there a previously published reference article on this topic?

THANKS for your comments....

gold40
There was a NO-BRASS variant,,, in the early days.
No-one would buy them, because they "had to be" weak and wimpy, because they weren't even "Low" brass.
There is a picture in a book of mine.
 

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When Win went to the 2 piece hull from the CF ones, the hull had a shiny red finish and a boxed AA logo. These were the ones that were prone to have the base wad dislodge.

Win then implemented a stop gap measure to keep the base wad from loosening and printed an AA logo.

The plain AA logo and the HS stamp is the final generation for now.
 

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I don't know that tensile has anything to do with the HS designation. Just High Strength, whatever they mean by that? It's not like we are pulling on anything with a shotgun shell hull. Heck, paper worked pretty well for a lot more years than plastic, HS or not, has been around! Paper doesn't have high tensile strength!

BP
 

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b. Can one use the same reload data for all variations?
There is rather complicated answer to this question. All that can be said is "it depends." The data manuals say the same data can be use for both the satin (CT) and shiny (HS) versions but experience shows this is not always the case as there are internal differences. If the data is for a dense powder, such as WSH or Titegroup, then the answer is "yes." If using a bulky powder, such as Clays or Red Dot, then the answer is "no." When using a bulky powder, a wad adjustment is needed to shorten the stack height. Use either a DRA12 wad or a standard wad, such as a AA clone or Rem clone designed to hold 1/8 oz. more shot that you are dropping. The "bigger" wad will have a shorter crush section giving you more room for the powder. The DRA12 wads have the shorter crush section built in. Hope this helps.
 

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The main difference is whether or not there is an H and an S stamped on either side of the primer on the brass base or not. (Color of the hull is only a dye and they exist in quite a few colors.) No HS stamp = compression formed hull, or with the stamp, it's an AA-HS hull. (And yes, some very early HS hulls weren't stamped.)

(And yes, depending on the time frame when they were made, they DO vary in length, depending on the gauge.)
 

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AND
There was a time when WW made shells that basically were an AA but they did not call them that. They were all one piece plastic with tapered walls that loaded exactly like an AA but were called Super Speed or Super X. It is kind of similar to the current Remington situation. Is a Gun Club an STS? No, it has a steel head, but the dimensions are the same, it loads the same and it is an all one piece plastic tapered wall hull. That pretty much describes the relationship between Super Speed and AA. The Super X did have a brass head (often taller than the brass in an AA) but was pretty much identical to an AA.
 

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The simpler answer is there are basically three versions of the Winchester AA hull.

1) The original AA Compression Formed hull introduced in 1965 and produced basically unchanged through 2004.

2) The AA-HS (High Strength) hull replaces the AACF in 2004. This is a three piece Reifenhauser pattern hull with a separate hull tube, basewad and brass head.The first generation of these reportedly had base wads that would come loose.

3) The Gen 2 AAHS, identical to the Gen 1 with the addition of molded rings/barbs on the basewad to better hold it in place. Regardless of tube color, markings or brass height this is the current standard AA hull. The same design and construction is used in the cheaper Winchester Universal/Super Speed line of ammo. The differences are a thinner plastic hull tube and steel heads rather than brass.

Winchester also makes several styles of straight wall Reifenhauser hulls used in other loads, but anything marked Winchester AA is going to be one of the three above.
 

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On the list of "AA wannabes" there is the new Browning ammo. It is an AAHS "type" and the plastic seems to be hard, smooth, and shiny like an AAHS. But, pretty thin with a steel head like a Super Target.

On a related note:
It has been a while since I loaded any Universals or Super Targets. It is getting late in the shooting year and I am finishing up odds and ends and trying out new loads. I am using a jug of WSH for the first time ever. I loaded up 100 Super Targets with 20.0 of WST, Blue Dusters, and 1 1/8 ounce. They loaded great with almost perfect crimps and NO case wall wrinkles. They shoot great. I doubt the hulls will hold up but they did load well. Just goes to show: get the stack height right (really dense powder) and things work a lot better. I tried the same 20.0 of WSH in Super Targets with CB1110 and 1 ounce - also very good.
 

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There also is a AAHS steel shot hull that is marked not for reloading. It's black and has the same base wad as the other HS hulls but the plastic seems different, thinner maybe.
 

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Forget about the color/sheen of the hulls, since Win has released the AA hulls in rainbows of colors to begin with. Hence if you order enough ammo for say an series event, Win will make the hull any color you want with your logo on it instead.

So it really breaks down to the hull itself, and the older hulls where CF hull, and the new hulls are HS hulls isntead. On the new HS hulls, they are shorter than the older CF hulls, and the HS design got a upgrade to help prevent the insert base cup from being sucked up the hull during firing after a few reloads.

So, HS on the left and center, and CF on the right.
 

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Are you sure that is a CF in the center? Looks like an HS to me.
 
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