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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Finally found this thing again, it's been kicking around the house for years.. anyone know how old it is?



(High) brass is embossed "Remington UMC" around the outer surface and stamped "Reminton UMC No.12 ARROW" around the primer. Shell casing is paper/cardboard and marked "SCATTER LOAD". Paper in the crimp end is printed "Remington UMC 3 1/8 Dupont". Overall length is just a hair shorter than a new Federal 3" magnum 00 buck shell.

Thoughts & opinions?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
baltz526 said:
sporting goods store display shell. i'll bet there was others in a display set to sell the ammo on the shelves in the store
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're right about that.. it's a sales sample from Remington / UMC.

Not sure how long it is once it's open, but it seems like a "3 inch shell. If so, it's no older than the introduction of 3" shells.. 1950s I think?

-ML
 

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I wouldn't attempt a date, but they were pretty common display items in years past.
I remember loading shells like that with a card wad between some layers. We used them mostly for rabbits.
Son of a Gun, I just realized this is my 2,500th post,, doesn't seem possible.
 

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They call it a "spreader" load huh?
It looks like a "duplex" also.
Is the shot at the back a bigger size than farther forward?
 

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It is NOT a "duplex" load, or a 3" load. It's the cutaway of an old-style Remington spreader hull. The "No. 12" on the base refers to the gauge. The other number on the hull refers to the "dram equivalent" of the load, and if you look at the "overshot wad" on top of the roll-crimped shell, it will tell what size shot is in the load.

It is probably from the late '20s or '30s, maybe earlier, and I remember seeing those old, dusty cutaways on display in the hardware stores of the late '30s and '40s. (I don't think there were unique sporting goods stores back then.)

BobK
 

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BobK said:
It is NOT a "duplex" load, or a 3" load.

It is probably from the late '20s or '30s, maybe earlier,
BobK
BobK is spot on here. Remington "Arrow" is pre WW2, the H I G H base and red color dates it even earlier, as does the writing around the brass. It would be interesting to see a picture of the top wad...... 3 1/8 dram equivilent also tends to date it on the early side.... If this is a "Kleanbore" round it is post 1927 or so, and if it is still corrosive priming it would be pre 1927....
Some topwads were marked "Kleanbore"......

Slidehammer
 

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When BobK says it is not a 3", he means that the shell seems long because it is roll crimped and has an unfired length about the same as a modern 3" plastic hull with fold crimp. Shotgun hull lengths are referred to by their overall length after they are opened.

Nice find.

Jeremiah
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks for all of this information..

Unfortunately, the printing is worn on the top wad, so a photo won't provide much more information. However, I don't see any worn area large enough to have held the word "Kleanbore".

I assume that 'DuPont' refers to the manufacturer of the powder charge?

Also, unless my eyes are fooling me, it does appear that the shot size decreases as the compartments move up from the base.

Amazing to think that this thing could be from the 1920s, and still be in decent shape!

-ML
 

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Im really guessing, but if that white stuff is to signify powder, it wouldnt probably be a nitrocellulose load. Im guessing with that much powder its a black powder shell display.. dont know for sure.. dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Again, thanks for all of this.. Despite all of the interesting and relevant info, I still can't peg a year of manufacture.

As others have suggested, I might post this to the reloading forum.. but I try not to cross-post.

-ML
 

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legendre said:
Again, thanks for all of this.. Despite all of the interesting and relevant info, I still can't peg a year of manufacture.

As others have suggested, I might post this to the reloading forum.. but I try not to cross-post.

-ML
I have a bud who collects old shells & store displays & he told me that with out the rest of the display you will never get a date.
He has 3 similar to yours but not the same that he has dated in the late 50's.
 

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ffffg said:
Im really guessing, but if that white stuff is to signify powder, it wouldnt probably be a nitrocellulose load. I'm guessing with that much powder its a black powder shell display.. dont know for sure.. dave
I'm relatively sure that shell is loaded with DuPont Bulk Shotgun Smokeless powder. It was a creamy color, single base (nitrocellulose) and was make bulky to match black powder dram measurements by volume using the same scoops and was comparable in performance.... Of course the grains weight were much lighter than black.

DuPont Bulk Shotgun was popular with "hand" loaders as we left the black powder era a century ago... Factories used it to, due to popularity. This tends to date the example in the 20's as well and more than likely pre-"Kleanbore"

I shot DuPont Bulk Shotgun Smokeless as a kid reloaded in all brass shells as it was easy igniting with the pistol primers used in the brass shells. But even this was over a half century ago and the powder was hard to find.... Factories hadn't used it for years even then....

Slidehammer
 
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